old military rifles vs. the new.
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Topic: old military rifles vs. the new.
Posted By: shotgunminister
Subject: old military rifles vs. the new.
Date Posted: February 03 2006 at 3:34am
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Well since the cattle are taken care of on this cold day up here in the ice box. I thought it would be interesting to poll the members here as to wether or not the new military rifle are any better then the old ones. Personaly I would never trust my life to a semi-auto. Given that most are gas operated and gas shrinks when it gets cold I feel thios is good enough reasoning. Up here in the ice box the temperture regularly drops below freezing and many times below zero. There have been cases of it dropping even more then that. I remember it was not that long ago that the governor ordered all the schools closed becuase the temperture had dropped to -60. A bolt gun is reliable regardless of the outside temp. It is simple, reliable and effective. There is no gas to shrink and cause the gun to malfunction. Only once have I ever had a bolt gun jam. And that was my own fault for trying to use a spent round as a "snap cap." When my life is on the line I'd take the reliablity of a bolt over the fast firepower of a semi-auto any day. Now true full-auto guns are another story since most of these rely on blow back rather then gas operation. Becuase of this outside temperture is a very small factor. For a close range battle, few things can out do the raw destructive power of a 12 gauge. ------------- I've seen the future and I don't like it. |
Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 03 2006 at 7:57am
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I agree with you on this whole heartedly! I have always felt (&
have witnessed throgh my time in the Army ) there is a tendensy to
"Pray & spray" rather than to pick a deliberate target! When using
a Semi auto /slective fire weapon added to the fact the damned things
tend to jam as the situation has become "interesting " Where as the
Bolt action ,saves ammo & is reliable & accurate ! Dave |
Posted By: shotgunminister
Date Posted: February 03 2006 at 10:31am
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I believe that the semi and full auto suffer from very limited usefullness. Although a good arguement can be made for using them for "cover" while the troops advance. I must submit that in modern warfare the usefulness of such tactics is limited. Modern warfare no longer is the years long wars that it once was. Modern warfare is and will be in the future dominated by short fast conflicts. Also there is no longer a front line as it relates to battle. This is no longer enemy ranks firing back at you but rather small groups of the enemy scattered greatly. The relibility issues common to auto-loading rifles cost many a GI his life back in Vietnam. Although they claim the have fixed this problem. I do not put faith is this design (namely the M16) even if it has been fixed. No gun in history has even come close to the reliability of a bolt be it an Enfield or otherwise. ------------- I've seen the future and I don't like it. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 04 2006 at 8:32pm
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I think that the sign out side the Marine Sniping school (I belive)
sums up the problem at hand ! It reads that the Kill ratio in
Vietnam for the average Grunt was 2000 rnds per kill where as the
Sniper was 2.5 per kill or $2000.00 verses 00.27 c or words to that effect ! Surely a Bolt action rifle in the hands of a trainnee is simpler to teach than the intracises of the Semi auto (once again I speak from my experiance as a Digger in the Aust Army ,where I went from being a fair shot with a bolt action which never failed me ,into a world of Gas blow back, many moving parts, & having to learn to unjam a weapon under fire !) I think that & I will be yelled down here from those who are more knowlageable on military tactics than me ! That the average soldier would be better trained & more conferdent in a simple bolt action that took little time to master it's workings & had more time to practice marksmanship ! Conferdense in your weapon is half the battle! knowing in the back of your mind with 100% that your weapon will fire & keep you alive & you have the ability to hit what you are aiming for every time ! In this day & age of Air support ,artillery ,armour (both light & heavy ) is there really a need for troops to be laden with the quantities of ammo that a selective fire weapon can go through ? where as the humble bolt action steadies down the rate of fire to a more concentrated rate ! Sorry if I've rambled on but this is a subject close to my heart Dave |
Posted By: Eric
Date Posted: February 06 2006 at 6:23am
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Makes perfect sense to me, Dave. Although, I'm not in politics and I'm not a lobyist with a politician in my back pocket! So I guess my .02 cents isn't worth squat! Eric |
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: March 18 2006 at 10:03am
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Well lads, I can tell y'all a true story.During artic excersises(?)with the Yanks, the following happened (everytime).
1. Canadians HAD to sleep with our FN -C2's in our sleeping bags - or they'd freeze solid.During the day, it was "hit & miss" as to wether or not they'd work if you needed them.(NOt a good thing - considering how the average polar bear has a taste for human flesh!!) 2. The Yanks had early model m-16's.They used them for walking sticks - cause thats ALL they was good fer!!Froze solid, 20 minutes out!(Not a good thing, given the polar bear's tastes) 3.The Eskimo (CDN Rangers) would laugh at the white man's inability to cope with the elements, & keep walking ahead - until you look up & suddenly - THEY'RE GONE!!!(Not a good thing!) And yes, thats just about when YE OLDE WHITE BEAR shows up.Nobody has a rifle that works, & alot of you are attached to a sled......WHAT R U GONNA DO ??!!(besides sh*t yourself, that is) Praying works! Honest! Cause just when you think UR about to become a memory to your parents, The bear will drop - you'll hear a "CRACK" - & the Rangers - with their Lee Enfields are in the distance comin back toward you! Yes folks - it's true! & The CDN gov't STILL issues the LEE ENFIELD to the Rangers, to this day, because they haven't found a rifle that is as dependable to replace it !!! That's God's honest truth! Hoadie ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: shotgunminister
Date Posted: March 18 2006 at 12:54pm
  Anyways it never fails the S*** always hits the fan when it's either the dead of night or 10 below freezing.------------- I've seen the future and I don't like it. |
hoadie wrote:Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 18 2006 at 5:27pm
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day off from school. Something even Dave would enjoy My oath ! I enjoied many days off school ! Infact they had trouble getting me to stay there ! Might be one of the reasons I do what I do for a living Dave |
Posted By: allan
Date Posted: March 18 2006 at 10:01pm
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I personally like the fire power of the new age stuff, but.. i also love the idea of bolt action simplicity of the old girls and just plain old reliability and accuracy. also the smle is a very attractive rifle..all that timber appeals to me and i just love em full stop....in a non fettish, twisted way :) |
Posted By: allan
Date Posted: March 18 2006 at 10:05pm
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Thought id say a quick gday to DaveH.. Wavin' a hand at ya from Wollongong NSW. cheers. Al |
Posted By: shotgunminister
Date Posted: March 19 2006 at 1:35am
------------- I've seen the future and I don't like it. |
Posted By: shotgunminister
Date Posted: March 19 2006 at 1:37am
------------- I've seen the future and I don't like it. |
Posted By: allan
Date Posted: March 19 2006 at 6:51am
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Thats very true shotgunminister, no arguements from me. |
Posted By: shotgunminister
Date Posted: March 19 2006 at 1:49pm
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Yep, I rate relibility first, simplicity second and firepower third, ------------- I've seen the future and I don't like it. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 19 2006 at 2:31pm
I meant you might enjoy the -60 F temps.. Mate anything below about 20deg C
& I start to go into hibernation I hate the cold ! -60F
no you blokes can have that to your selves Dave |
Posted By: shotgunminister
Date Posted: March 20 2006 at 9:09am
 ------------- I've seen the future and I don't like it. |
Posted By: ledom daor
Date Posted: April 02 2006 at 3:43pm
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I got out of the military in 86 (USAF I was a cop..) USAF was the first to buy the m-16.. Needless to say I never had one with a SN over 48K. None of them had forward bolt assist.. This M-4 they are using now does not seem to bad.. (got to play with one about a month or so ago) But I just saw a show on the new M8 and it is really something.. ( it looked like they put some thought into it.) It can take dirt mud and keep working. They made their minds up to not use gas operation. (It is blow back) Though I love my old battle rifles! I dont think I would like to do many house searches with them. But if I was in big open areas They would be great to reach out and touch someone... I guess it comes down to the right tool for the job at hand.. And practice practice practice Ledom P.S. But you got to love a shotgun! One of the first things I reach for! ------------- Governments are like Dogs. The bigger they are, the more poo they leave for you to clean up! |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: April 18 2006 at 12:35pm
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Hi guys! I'm new on here and have enjoyed reading some of your postings. Over the years I've been lucky enough to handle several military issue weapons, namely the enfield mk4, enforcer, bren, sten, FN, gpmg, m16, and the current abortion issued the british forces Tony ------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
. All I can say is for sheer reliability and accuracy give me an enfield any day. Robust reliable and a real man stopper when the chips are down. When you opened your leg bag after a drop at least you didn't have to repair them with tape when the stocks cracked unlike the modern rubbish used today.Posted By: Eric
Date Posted: April 18 2006 at 12:44pm
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Welcome to the forum Tony. It seems there are quite a few people that share your thoughts on the reliability and ruggedness of the Enfields. It's great to have you aboard!! Eric |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: April 18 2006 at 1:05pm
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Thanks for the welcome Eric. I just hope I haven't rattled anybodies cage with my comments. I'm talking from personal experience, all I can say is if the army wanted to standardise the ammo they should have remodeled the old fn to 5.56 and held on to the enfields. The current abortion is a liability, in close quarter combat smacking somebody with the butt would leave you with a pile or broken plastic. Belt em with an enfield and they don't come back for a second dose. ------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |