It's supposed to be match ammunition.

It does have a hollow point, but is made for target work.

For hunting you want a soft point really, and would be better off choosing one of the soft point options.

A while back a Bronze point was available, and these at first glance appeared to be full jacket.

They did expand well though.

Whether these loaded by Hornady are a thick jacket or not I do not know, so can't say how they would perform on game.

With the hollow point, they may not penetrate all that well on heavy stuff, but may zing right through a deer without opening up.

For hunting, find a hunting bullet.

 

Expansion, and the control of it, has 2 functions. Firstly it increases the diameter on the bullet. This increases the wound channel and surrounding ballistic shock, increasing the damage done to muscle and organs, and potentially more meat damage. Secondly, by using an expanding round, you are wanting to limit penetration. This stops the bullet as it passes through the vitals and avoids exiting the animal and wounding another.

 

The most important factors are getting the bullet to the target with enough energy and energy retention and having the bullet perform as expected.

 

But a lot more has to do with the animal, the result and the conditions.

 

Thick skinned animals (i,e, elephant) require the bullet to penetrate through a thick hide. But the result is to put the animal down with no regard to the quantity of meat damage. The condition would most likely be a frontal head shot at about 20 meters and almost zero chance of over penetration and hitting another target. So a big, heavy solid is what you want.

 

But you wouldn't be using a 303 (ethically and legally anyway).

 

So lets look at a soft skinned animal. Almost every medium to large deer/antelope can be ethically hunted using anything from 6mm up. But now the animal/result/condition changes. The animal is negligible here. The result is either a trophy first or meat first. If it is meat a head, upper neck or frontal chest shot would be ideal. A well placed head shot by a competent marksman can take a kudu/moose with a .222 or .223 using a mono or fmj. But you have to remember the condition. Are you likely to hit another animal? Will the bullet perform as intended at the range you are shooting?

 

The top of the neck shot (where the neck and skull meet, and my personal favourite shot) can be accomplished with all but varmint bullets. It is generally a 2" or bigger target with a 99% kill or 10 miss. In other words you either miss completely or the animal is down and out.

 

The frontal chest shot has little in the way of error too. A shallow penetration would most certainly hit the "engine room". On the other hand a deep penetration would do a lot of damage to the vitals.

 

Finally the "safety" shot. As the animal places its front leg forward aim for where the "elbow" was at mid stride. Again either a shallow penetration or deep penetration will put the animal down and out.

 

Very seldom, as a meat hunter, would you use a raking shot or, the worst meat damager of all, the Texas Heart Shot, or going away shot. These shots are bet left to trophy hunters or those unlucky enough to have a runner. In that latter case you are placing shots ethically as opposed to hunting for meat.

 

Now if you are hunting close range, no matter the bullet, if you have a very fast round you will damage meat. Generally speaking you want a heavy, slow round that hits its target and maintains its energy as it penetrates the animal.

 

So this is my long way round of saying that expansion as less to do with a clean kill and meat damage, that all the other factors that have lead to the shot being taken. The rifle, the hunter, the environment, the animal, the result, and so on.

 

I'm not sucking this stuff out of my thumb either. During my stint as a PH, over a period of 3 years I guided hunters in the harvesting of over 400 Common Reedbuck. These were shot, on foot during daylight, at ranges from 30 meters to 300 meters using everything from .223 to .375H&H, 50gr to 300gr. Taking the hunter, rifle and environment into account, I had 0% lost animals. Only a few (less than 5%) required follow up shots and only 2 required me to complete the job (.375H&H open sights with 300gr Barnes X).

Dairy Farmer, 

In N. America, we have to use soft point or hollow point ammo, as you are probably aware, to comply with the law.

Shot placement is academic,  as in, wherever we shoot anything, it still has to be the aforementioned ammo.

I know in your neck of the woods, a good knock-down shot can be accomplished with a solid.

Here too maybe if it was allowed!

A  soft point will normally knock the props out quicker here, with say a lung shot, than if a solid was used, and I think this is the point of the poster you were replying to.

 I'd  also say (as a meat hunter!) that a lung shot with a soft point doesn't damage too much meat, Unless you shoot something through the shoulder into the lungs!  

Here, many do not approve of head shots, for the reason that a jaw may be broken with a badly placed shot, whereas a rib -cage shot allows a little more leeway on something in top gear.

Mind, I hunted for about 9 or 10 years with a flintlock rifle when we moved  here,  so had to be fairly careful placing shots.  

Since then, I went "modern" and use a Snider-Enfield, Martini Henry or Even a Lee Enfield!!

All the best,

Richard.

 

Are you guys not allowed to use solids on your "dangerous" game like bear?

 

I have seen my share of shot off jaws. This is due to the hunter taking a shot that he/she is not competent in taking and the blame must be put squarely on the guide/PH. I would never allow a hunter to take a head shot unless I know that they can do it. Even I don't take them 99% of the time. The other 1% are frontal head shots or behind the ear shots.

 

There you go. The bullet is still going fast, so you can have something heavy. A lighter bullet is going to be going too fast. Slowing down a light bullet will negatively affect the energy it will have at target.

 

Rule of thumb, a slow heavy bullet placed right (other that a head shot) will give the best knock down, the best penetration (or lack of over penetration) and the best knock down effect at closer ranges. The further out you go the faster the bullet must travel to maintain its energy.

Tony wrote: You need the controlled expansion of a soft point to ensure a clean kill.

That is a myth and I'll explain.

 

If the law says that you must use at least xyz, the ethical hunter would already be exceeding these requirements.

 

Lets hope all our shots hit their marks and that we are confident in our equipment and ability before we take the decision. We are not politicians (I hope) after all.

This is a difficult subject, as we all envision something different when we think of our hunting environs!!

Here in Alberta, I have had white-tails so close I could here them breathing on occasion, and shots at 350 yards are not out of the question either.  (Maybe some of us shouldn't be shooting that far though!)

It's asking a lot of the same bullet to work just as well at both extremes.

Dairy Farmer,

As you say, Shot placement counts first.  :-)

 Here (and back home in the UK,) we are not allowed to use solids on any game animals.  

In a way, it would make sense for breaking down a big old bear, the same as it is used on  Cape Buffalo etc. (shoulder) (And! provided the shooter could hit it!)

Seeing as we are stuck with soft points, it is to our advantage to choose a bullet very carefully for things like large bears.  A slower heavier bullet will get where you want better than the faster lighter ones, but this you already know.

When it comes to deer-sized, more or less anything will work, just some mash more meat than others.  :-)

There is one advantage to heavier round-nosed bullets for the OP's Tennessee bush shooting, and that is that slower and more parralell-sided bullets do deflect less if they hit something on their way to the target, rather than 'zinging  off".   

Re. hollow points;

You are quite correct, most are to be avoided as light bullets for small 'varmint' type animals, but Norma made a fantastic round with a slight hollow point, and it was a wonderful performer on moose and the likes.  It was made in 6.5 x 55 and was dynamite on anything I used it on.

A moose takes a lot less stopping than an elk, BTW.  

All the best,

Richard.

Were you In that boot when it fell on the deer in Surrey??

What you mention at the top of this page, (Something being thrown around) is like we see in some 3rd rate movies, where the bad guy gets shot with a shotgun, and is picked up and hurled through  the door or whatever.  If That was the case, I wouldn't want to be on the other  end of that shotgun either!

Elk show little reaction to being hit, sound like relatives of your imported Sika deer Tony.

The quickest I ever knocked one down was a front -quartering shot,  with a Martini-Henry.  About 125 yards away.

Mind, the bullet broke the neck/spine at the junction, so only a single kick & it was over.

the old 480 gr. bullet went a lot further though, exiting well behind the ribs.

The hit sounded like hitting a tree with a stick.

Second fastest was a 6x6 bull, and a 215 gr .303 at about 175 yds.

One shot broadside. Took 2 steps & fell over.  (shot him a bit lower than planned. was aiming for a higher lung shot & got him through the ticker instead....open sight and older eyes to blame!) 

Those collected with the 7 x 57 sometimes turned and looked at me, like I had missed or something, then lay down, and tipped over.  

Have seen chaps with great big guns shoot a full-grown bull elk in a hind leg broadside.

No matter how big a gun, a shot like that is not going to work.

I tell them to go home and practice 'till they can hit something where it lives.

About things watching you;

A good pal in Switzerland collects Indo-Persian swords, and has one with a tiger -head pommel.

Has to keep it in a drawer as it is always watching him with its little ruby eyes!........they follow him about the room....

I've been saying the same for years.

 

To knock over an animal that weighs about the same as you, you would react to the recoil the same as the animal reacts to the bullet.

 

Animals that flip are being controlled by the nerves. It's the fight or flight reaction. Most animals are so highly strung that the slightest of stimuli will set off a subconscious reaction. They do not have the luxury of assessing the situation then reacting. Much like a professional sportsman. Most of the time they are subconsciously reacting to the situation. Training builds up their state to react to different situations in different ways so that they have to do the minimal amount of thinking (which is slow compared to reactions).

The bullets in all of that line are Hornady's.

They'll make a '30' caliber hole in a critter, maybe all the way through!  Those "match" hollow points do NOT expand reliably.  Their intended function is to make a nice clean hole in paper, and thin paper at that!

The 174 gr. PPU soft points are, or at least have been available at Palmetto State Armory, and IIRC, Midway USA, for about $16.00 (US) for twenty rounds, and perhaps a bit for shipping.  

Around here, in south central Idaho, 303 in the "major" brands, WW, Remington, Federal, are generally on the shelf with asking prices in the vicinity of $35 a box!

BTW, I've used 150 gr. M2 ball (.308 150 gr. flat base, FMJ) at 'about' 2700 fps, and it'll drop mule deer as effectively as it dropped a whole bunch of 'bad guys' over several decades of use.  I'd wager that so has the Mk VII load, when not much else was available. 

Shot placement with those target loads, or FMJ's is crucial for a "humane" kill.  

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Hope that info helps.