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(BOUGHT IT) a 1914 BSA SMLE ftr'd in 44*

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Topic: (BOUGHT IT) a 1914 BSA SMLE ftr'd in 44*
Posted By: Shamu
Subject: (BOUGHT IT) a 1914 BSA SMLE ftr'd in 44*
Date Posted: July 30 2017 at 1:52pm
OK, guys & girls, help me out here I'm not really a SMLE expert but I just may have found something so I'd like your opinions on it, its value & a few questions.


I have a chance to get this rifle, sorry for the image quality it was very limited opportunity & I had to do this on the fly.

What I think I know”:

Its a 1914 BSA made No1 MkIII*.

BUT its marked as a MkIII no star, but it has the sights without windage, no magazine cut off, nor is there a slot for one.

Serial No is a 4 digit 924X Numbers match on bolt handle, barrel receiver ring nose cap & magazine. There is also another number on the magazine which has been over-struck but might have been50699?


It was FTR'd somewhere in '44* (I think because that's the barrel date).

The sight has the S/A “arrow in a “U” property mark, but nothing else does.

The bolt head is stamped with just a “U”


Markings from back to front.


Rear left of receiver by bolt raceway:

99 (or88) poorly struck

AR


Right side:

15

KS

0 (or0, or C)


Receiver ring right side:

crown

G.R.

BSA Co

1914

ShtLE

III (there may be a very faint “dot” or period very low down, Maybe a sloppily mis-struck “*”?


Right side receiver raceway up high adjacent to bolt release cut:

NO1MK III K

Directly below that

CAI St Alb Vt


front receiver ring:

F

924X (serial number)


WD arrow.


Other stuff:

the front sling swivel band is the split/hinged type.


The peep sight is a PH 5a, but is oddly mounted.

It looks like they just used the standard rear trigger guard screws first 2 or 3 turns.

The “figure-8 spring" on the safety is missing but there's a coil spring between the bracket & safety that's performing the function well enough. But the bracket seems canted both vertically & diagonally.


What can you tell me?

Thanks.

Pics:






*edited, sorry I mis-remembered the barrel date it was '44, not '42.



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)



Replies:
Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: July 30 2017 at 2:58pm
The coil spring for the safety is supposed to be there to work with the sight, no dumb bell used.

Looks to be a nice old rifle that somebody fitted a target sight (well, almost fitted). I think that this is likely to be the work of a previous civilian owner. If it isn/t sitting right, something has been messed with. It can be fixed.

The sight if in nice condition is probably worth almost as much as the rifle.

A target rifle it is not, but could have potential to shoot well. I am biased, I love these old rifles. I love shooting them.

1914 is not a common date to find, so that adds to collector interest. It has the 'been there' look. It has taken (and no doubt, given) a Schmidt kicking or two.

No mag cut off slot is intriguing. Kinda early for mk.III* manufacturing concessions. But the List of Changes being published made things official, there was often a lag time to get the paperwork up to date. 
The definitive changes to Mk.III* status was to do with the sighting. Deletion of mag cut off and other concessions were subsequent to that and optional. 

If the price is right. But I have no idea. My guess would be way off. I am usually off by about ten years in value.
Basic working man surplus Smellies are now collector's items. This is a nice one with character. Now next to consider is working condition. If something doesnt have a bright bore in the barrel, I usually pass or look at it as donor and haggle accordingly.

'Dark bore with lots of rifling visible' or 'frosted bore' means to me that the rifle has seen neglect and not maintained and cleaned after shooting. Period. A good bore is my litmus test.




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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: July 30 2017 at 3:44pm
Is that crack in the stock serious?

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 30 2017 at 5:51pm
The bore is fine, clear with sharp rifling &very little fouling.

The big crack is in the rear handguard, the "fingers" are missing also, both common faults, but easily fixable with a "new" rear handguard.

It seems I need either the figure 8 & go back to the original sights, or  the correct rear trigger guard screw & keep the PH5. Or both & pick what my mood saysOuch


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: July 30 2017 at 6:08pm
Shamu, I have several proper rear trigger guard screws for the #1/MK3 rifles if you are ever in need.

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: July 30 2017 at 6:53pm
You will need a longer rear trigger guard screw to mount the sight.

The longer long Lee rear trigger guard screw is just the about right length.


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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: July 30 2017 at 6:55pm
Oh I see, point taken.

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: Stanforth
Date Posted: July 31 2017 at 2:46am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:



The big crack is in the rear handguard, the "fingers" are missing also, both common faults, but easily fixable with a "new" rear handguard.


Take the handguard off. Press it together and if it fits together nicely, Stick it with superglue and bind it tight with sticky tape until it sets.
That way you keep the original guard and it will be a colour/patina match to the rest of the gun.


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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.


Posted By: Stanforth
Date Posted: July 31 2017 at 2:53am
I also noticed that it has a slab sided cocking piece.

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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 31 2017 at 5:27am
Originally posted by englishman_ca englishman_ca wrote:

You will need a longer rear trigger guard screw to mount the sight.

The longer long Lee rear trigger guard screw is just the about right length.

Thanks for the tip, is it the same thread & is the head workable with this bracket?


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: July 31 2017 at 5:33am
It's a nice rifle Shamu.
Could do with a length of threaded brass wire for the rear handguard.
The flat cocking piece maybe wound up there in the FTR.  As long as it fit they weren't fussy.


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: July 31 2017 at 5:34am
Yes, the screw is same thread and has a larger cheese head, it works well.




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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 31 2017 at 8:12am
Sweet, thanks.
I got it, just brought it home today.
Popped the rear handguard & its completely split, but will go back together with pressure. All the wood is saturated with linseed, it was sweating it just in the back of the van with the a/c on coming home!
I swabbed the mating surfaces with denatured a few times to degrease it & have it bound with tape & filled with gorilla glue. If it works, great! If not I'll get a replacement with the fingers also. I may try the wood spliced "Biscuits" like the original just for the experience as well.
It has a few boogered screw heads so I'm going to replace them, detail strip & clean all the oozing cosmo & buff it (no abrasives! there are nice markings still in the stock so I don't want to over restore it, just de-butcher the messed up parts.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: July 31 2017 at 9:47am
gorilla glue is great stuff!

I use it for all my stock repairs.

Remember to wipe any extra once you clap the bits up in place.

Tooth pick work great for this job.

My only questions on gorilla glue is it made by gorillas or from gorillas?

Just do not get it on your hand and them go take a leak.



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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: July 31 2017 at 10:16am
I've been using plain old carpenter's white glue, like Elmers glue. It works well but the curing time might be longer than Gorilla glue.

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: July 31 2017 at 10:43am
I'm gonna put "Gorilla Glue" on Paddy's T.P. when I go to visit.
That oughta be interesting..

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: July 31 2017 at 1:14pm
Hey those are my initials! LOL

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: July 31 2017 at 1:34pm
..Then I'll put it on you, too! Sick around...

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 31 2017 at 1:49pm
Yeah the gorilla glue is good stuff, but like you say you have to work fairly spedily with it.
I applied it to the surfaces with a q-tip & then brought them together to fill the seam a bit, then I taped it. I'll put a little dark sawdust in clear filler top match the color a bit.
Its more of an experiment for me in reality as I can get replacement used ones that still have the fingers for $22.00


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: July 31 2017 at 8:22pm
all i know is that BSA was not makin the mkIII* in 1914 so it was converted in 42 FTR , Value is what you place n it but i see lots to recomend the buy , others have offered far more than i could above , if you got it congrats ,




Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: August 01 2017 at 4:00am
A SQ: Is that your new avatar? I like it!

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 01 2017 at 5:35am
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

all i know is that BSA was not makin the mkIII* in 1914 so it was converted in 42 FTR , Value is what you place n it but i see lots to recomend the buy , others have offered far more than i could above , if you got it congrats ,



I'd agree with you but it doesn't have the receiver slot for the cutoff!Ouch
Everything else could have been swapped out in the FTR, but I doubt they'd fill the slot & re-machine it?
Definitely something odd about this one!
I did fine on the buying price I think.
(I hope)
Boogered replacement screws are on order, when they arrive I'll detail strip it down & get pics while the wood is de-oiling.
Confused

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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Stanforth
Date Posted: August 01 2017 at 6:58am
2 points.
(1) That cocking piece is certainly not 1914 so that looks like it was changed in the FTR.
 
(2) 'Boogered' screws are a sign of shoddy workmanship and whilst not a problem in themselves you are right in stripping and rebuilding.
 
Good luck. It is good to see another one in safe and caring
hands.Thumbs Up


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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: August 01 2017 at 7:05am
This is just a story, it could be folk law. Maybe it will sound familiar to somebody???

Now I will have to dig to find the source of this, but I have a fuzzy memory of about how a batch of Mk.III* rifles was rejected because they were not to pattern. The jist of the story was that BSA implemented some of the manufacturing concessions early before the spec was official. The Govt inspectors rejected the batch only to approve it later.

A 1914 dated receiver rifle could be built in 1915.

No slot in a 1914 rifle is unusual, but there probably will be a simple answer.

Friggin memory is fading. Wish I knew to whom I lent my Lee Enfield Story book.


If I recalled all the books, all the records and CDs that I loaned out and not got back, I would have a storage problem.


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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: August 01 2017 at 8:05am
Originally posted by hoadie hoadie wrote:

I'm gonna put "Gorilla Glue" on Paddy's T.P. when I go to visit.
That oughta be interesting..


Hoadie,you are truly a pain in the are, sometime a pain in the opposite side!

You old ball buster you.

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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 01 2017 at 10:04am
Originally posted by englishman_ca englishman_ca wrote:

This is just a story, it could be folk law. Maybe it will sound familiar to somebody???

Now I will have to dig to find the source of this, but I have a fuzzy memory of about how a batch of Mk.III* rifles was rejected because they were not to pattern. The jist of the story was that BSA implemented some of the manufacturing concessions early before the spec was official. The Govt inspectors rejected the batch only to approve it later.

A 1914 dated receiver rifle could be built in 1915.

No slot in a 1914 rifle is unusual, but there probably will be a simple answer.

Friggin memory is fading. Wish I knew to whom I lent my Lee Enfield Story book.


If I recalled all the books, all the records and CDs that I loaned out and not got back, I would have a storage problem.


Interesting let me go digging about & see if anything pops up.

Meanwhile I found another incongruity, to the sight this time though.
The "data panel" where the makers info & serial number is usually stamped, on the rear flat face of the arm's vertical shaft & the mount has been scrubbed & sanitized! & there is a stamped, not electro-pencilled South African property mark on both pieces!
I have no way of telling if this is factory, government, or aftermarket work of course but there was a rumor of sales to S/A while they were embargoed. I wonder if this was one of them?
Confused


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 02 2017 at 9:29am
englishman_ca

I did find this, courtesy of the guys over at SRF:



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: August 02 2017 at 9:50am
Yup, that's the fuzzy story that I was trying to recall.

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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 02 2017 at 1:23pm
Odd thing is now it seems my serial # doesn't match the production date?
This is getting stranger the more we dig.
gratuitous pic after the first wipe down.
Sourcing parts.



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 02 2017 at 7:59pm
"..I'd agree with you but it doesn't have the receiver slot for the cutoff!Ouch
Everything else could have been swapped out in the FTR, but I doubt they'd fill the slot & re-machine it?
Definitely something odd about this one!.." 

that combined with simon's post does make it an interesting story , no matter , i think you got a keeper in that one , i like it , 

wonder if it was made as a commercial ? does it have the broad arrow ? - im too lazy tonight to glean through the thread and photos ......its been a long week and only half over ......im tired 

NO- NOT MY NEW AVITAR , just photo bucket phucking me over again - ive got a lot of revisions to do on a lot of sites as its been my only everywhere = forever , did i mention , im tired 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 03 2017 at 5:19am
Its not commercial it has broad arrows & a royal Cypher for King George V.



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: August 06 2017 at 1:19pm
So Service rifle competition's in modified class now Shamu? Nice rifle and interesting spec with no cut off etc!



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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: August 06 2017 at 1:45pm
Enjoy!

Very nice rifle.

Let us know how it shoots.

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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 06 2017 at 2:04pm
I'm honestly no longer sure, I haven't competed for a long time.I used to shoot "Full Bore", but that isn't really a US discipline, so I kind of lapsed. "F" Class is popular here but its so modified that I dont see myself getting into bench rested with scopes as a discipline.
Cry

Mods always struck me as "odd" because you could completely restock & re-bed the action as long as it looked "bog stock", but if you changed the sights it was a class difference!

This sight was "bolted on" rather than installed!ConfusedShockedCry

Its off diagonally, vertically & horizontally, & worse still it wobbles! The best zero you could hope for would be "Minute of next Tuesday" IMO. Its also still fitted with the original rear sight so you're looking at a very odd sight picture under about 300 yards.

When I do my cleanup & re assemble it I'll shim it properly & with the right screw, (I'm kind of hoping this is why it was sold because it was "shot out & wouldn't group")Star
How did your vacation go? Did M. Zed have lots of "honeydo lists" or did you get to go shooting?



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Stanforth
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 2:04am
I don't compete with anyone except myself.
Every month I go to Bisley with a few of my rifles with two objectives. Firstly to work up the best load for the particular rifle and then, when I am happy, I try the get better scores than I did last time out.
I shoot rifles from 7.62mm (308) to 50/70 and enjoy them all with no pressure.


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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 4:30am
Shamu; the rear sight mounting on my No1MkkIII* also uses the rear trigger guard screw. I purchased a longer one from the a specialist in the U.S.A. The threads are not standard on the SMLE's so not easy to find locally.
I agree that the standard rear sight does get in the way when shootint at 200 yardsetc. So I removed the rear of the back sight and filed off the underside ridge; then refitted it upside down. So if I need to use it I can easily flip it over. Now it does not interfere with the diptre sight.
To set up the AJ Parker sight I used a laser; shining through the dioptre and aiming at the front blade; ensuring that the beam was in the middle of the back sight notch at 200 yards, then again at 1000 yards; to ensure it was correct vertically. It works well with the Parker sight. I suggest you try andadjust the fittings to ensure alignment before junking the idea. It does make it easier to shoot.



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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 5:52am
Yes there will be some shims fitted to align it.
I also have the longer rear screw coming in.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: August 08 2017 at 11:54am
I did get to shoot a few times; once with the No1 rifle and a couple of times with the .45 pistol. A change in the way I shoot the pistol seems to be working and I'm quite pleased with the improvement.
But it was a busy few weeks. Did not get time to strip the Resistance No4 yet, or repair my XT500, the Renault 4L van passed the annual test and broke down on the way home! ignition problem; got it home but need to get some parts. Last week was spent sorting out a new gate; digging foundations, building the pillars and wall. Got a steel gate from a friend but need to get it blasted and painted before I hang it.
Also I have been given loads of photos of the liberation of our local town. I'll post some on a new thread.

Next weekend is a 4 day holiday and the wife and daughter are off to see Granny, so I should get some shed time at last!! Thumbs Up


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 08 2017 at 2:05pm
Sweet!
If you need the old Enfield screws for the early No1's I have a few sources that are a good bit less than the custom guys who usually sell for $30~40 a pop!
I tried to order from one place & they were a mess, but "Liberty Tree Collectors" are pretty decent.
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewcategories.asp?idCategory=62" rel="nofollow - https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewcategories.asp?idCategory=62


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 09 2017 at 1:12pm
"To set up the AJ Parker sight I used a laser; shining through the dioptre and aiming at the front blade; ensuring that the beam was in the middle of the back sight notch at 200 yards, then again at 1000 yards; to ensure it was correct vertically. It works well with the Parker sight. I suggest you try and adjust the fittings to ensure alignment before junking the idea. It does make it easier to shoot."

Brilliant! Just flipping brilliant, why didn't I think of that?
Hug
There's no way I'm dumping the P-H, it IMO open sights are  the biggest single disadvantage of the No1 over the No4, the sights! The P-H fixes that very neatly & gives windage as well.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: August 09 2017 at 1:57pm
Looking forward to a range report soon!

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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: AlexMaz
Date Posted: August 10 2017 at 2:17am
Wooow, that's a looking rifle.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 10 2017 at 5:59am
I taped a small (3"X3") piece of white card to the front edge of the front sight  protectors & used Zed's laser trick. It worked perfectly! all 3 sights are now aligned at the 200 yd mark. Is the 5 yd range wheel on the open rear sight always this stiff? I found it almost impossible to turn! The thing is oiled & slides easily & the wheel spins freely once disengaged with the button.
Beer

I haven t made it to the range yet & I want to do the detail strip down & birthday, including getting most of the extra oil out of the wood, before I get a zero as I'm sure it will change as I do this.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: August 10 2017 at 11:20am
On my No1 the lightly side micro adjustment wheel is almost impossible to turn without relieving a bit of pressure on the spring; but it's tricky to do it accurately until you've worked out how much pressure you need to keep it engaged in the thread while making it easier to turn.
However I should that the spring in mine is not standard. The original spring was weak and I found the sight would slide forward under recoil; causing an vertical amusing group until I realised what was happening!


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 10 2017 at 2:21pm
I think Godzillas "bruvver in Brum" installed mine after nicking it from a mack truck!Pig


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 11 2017 at 9:45am
The package of Cosmo-saturated swivels, parts, screws & so on arrived! Let the Chaos & mayhem begin!

Now I discover I also need the front handguard as its missing its fingers too!
Ouch
*sigh*

All I'm waiting on now is the longer rear trigger guard screw for the PH5a, which is on its way from somewhere else. No matter I can start without it as dismounting the Peep is the first order of business.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 13 2017 at 9:31am
One of the screws is utterly Buggered! I know they're used parts but really, this thing is a tiny boat anchor. Threads are crossed & stripped & the center 1/2 of the shaft is worn down to 1/2 its original diameter!

Also the longer PH attaching screw has arrived now & its perfect. There's a shout out to the supplier further down in the forums.

Now for the big reveal as I've stripped the rifle completely for cleaning & a birthday.
Here's the receiver right side view. I included the wrist so "the unbelievers" won't be able to say Its a different gun.



I can't see a slot for a cut off, can anyone else? I can't see any sign of welding or other work either. But, just to confuse this even more, the pivot screw hole is both drilled & tapped on the bottom! I have no idea of the sequence of operations that would have been used in 1914 to machine the receiver from billet castings, but I'm at a loss to explain this. How the heck did it get past the veritable army of inspectors?
WackoEmbarrassed


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 14 2017 at 11:20am
I've had a couple of requests for pics of the inside of the receiver bottom/magwell. There's some thought the slot is filled with weld.
I'm dubious, but here's what I could get.

Butt to the right LEFT wall shown. If there's evidence of a cut or re-weld it should show up on here?


Butt to the left RIGHT Wall shown, just for the sake of completeness.


& a couple of shots after the first cleanup, 5th oil drain Confused just some gratuitous gun pron. I'm using the "Hot black trash bag wrapped in paper towels" method as it seems the kindest to old wood. The front parcel shelf of the mini-van is a pefect oven to cook it gently!

It cleaning nicely without changing the character of the wood IMO, & the replaced rear handguard is a decent match. Now I'm looking for a close matching front one with the wings.
Wacko



A bit too glossy for my tastes but we'll finish draining the excess oil & se how it ends up.



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 14 2017 at 6:57pm
one fine looking rifle ............


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 15 2017 at 2:48pm
Please do me a favor guys.
Take a good, close look at the images of the bare receiver & the inside of the mag-well & tell me if you think you see any evidence of welding, or filling in any way. In particular I'm looking at where the magazine cutoff slot should have been.
I have one person elsewhere telling me he can see where it was re-welded or filled somehow, but I can see nothing. Your second/third & so-on opinion is valued as I do not want a rifle who's receiver has had that much heat applied over such a large area.
TIA as always.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 15 2017 at 7:27pm
i dont see welding , but my eyes are not so good anymore , 

what is the marking below the mkIII marking its one ive never seen before , 


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: August 16 2017 at 4:30am
I don't see any welding in the photos. If you wanted to weld up the slot and machine it as per original, you'd have to remove the charger bridge as well. That's an awful lot of bother for no real benefit; would have been easier just to buy a rifle without the slot.
It is interesting though being stamped as a MkIII. Could it have been a trial rifle for the intended modifications?


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 16 2017 at 5:47am
A Square: its "F.T.R.", I've never seen it with periods before either its usually just "FTR", but I'm assured its just a routine variation in the stamping. Its another oddity though as there's no date or facility. The barrel is dated '44 so I assume its a '44 FTR?

Zed: I don't know that's the big mystery! Supposedly there was a short run of BSA rifles that was made this way as the result of a mix up when the plant was re organizing, but that would have been almost 2 years later! I know they made receivers in large batches then worked their way through them till they made the next batch, but 2 years in wartime seems unlikely.

My personal guess is its "Friday Ford" kind of thing that just messed up.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: August 16 2017 at 12:41pm
Anyway it looks like a great rifle! Just enjoy it and get it shooting well. 
I've found that my No1 rifle likes slightly lighter loads than the No4; probably due to the thinner barrel. 
I'm running around 2320 feet per second with 174 grain boat tail bullets.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 16 2017 at 1:43pm
I usually run my hand-loads about 100FPS below MilSpec anyway.
Now I have 3 of these beasts to hand cater to the whims of!
Censored


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 19 2017 at 12:25pm
Well I got it to my mate, who does custom off road truck builds & custom frame & roll bar welding & so on, so has access to & knowledge of, the Ultrasonic Testing rig. Fascinating bit of kit, its all computer-generated & split into 2 graphics areas. One shows the actual signal change amplitude as a clothesline graph, the other the generated interference image, its a bit like looking at a side-scan sonar visually.

We had all the guys at the shop there as they were fascinated, it was the first "real shewting gun" some of them had seen.
Clap

We ran the tests with the action stripped from the forend & without the bolt. The charger bridge was the first "target" inspected as we knew there were joined pieces, fasteners & "linear discontinuities" where it was riveted to the actual action body casting. This gave us some experience with the equipment & how it reacted with a complex multi-part test subject.

Where the probes (there's 2, one injecting the signal & the other collecting it again) passed through the join of the bridge & the body there was a very distinct, strong pulse increase the jagged line graph peaked massively, very obviously different form other areas. Surprisingly once we found a rivet it was immediately obvious as well! It showed up as 2 peaks above the "norm" with a depressed area in between them. The resolution was much higher than I expected. The graphic area looked a bit like a super-fine barcode with thick-thin-thick lines as we passed differing materials & voids.

Now we went for the area where the slot would be if it existed, & was either filled or welded.
Nada!

Shocked

My mate was right IMO, the UT ignores things like material thickness, & shape, because the casting & machining makes a really complex 3D unit & this ignores the clutter of shape & concentrates on finding difference within the material. I was amazed that it actually found the rivets to be "different" from the bridge & the bridge different from the action body! The "joins" or "cracks" where the parts came together looked lie mount Everest in Holland! I think an X-ray would have been really cluttered as even a 3D image because of the complexity of the cast & machined areas & the double decker nature of the receiver.

So, now I'm happy its not filled or welded we can go shoot this puppy!

It shot a few 3~41/2" 10-roud groups at 100Yds. with South African 1981 made R1M3Z. The rifles trigger is a tad gritty on the first pressure so a bit of Scotchbrite polishing of the bumps & sear face is indicated & I need to do more work on shimming the PH-5A at the top as the dumbbell spring bolt is bottomed out. Under recoil it slowly slants after several rounds  so I need to re-shim the area between the mounts arm & the area around the dumbbell spring hole. Not to bad for old eyes in an old head & hands with iron sights.
Thumbs Up



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 20 2017 at 9:37am
Snagged it!
Thumbs Up
Found a (supposedly) new upper handguard with the fingers!
Lost one on e-pay, but got the other!
When it arrives I'll match the stain to whats on there as close as I can & install it.
Also Kudos to Libery Tree for replacing the duff screws. They're just mailing me a couple of replacements as the cost of shipping back would be more than the value of the screws.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: August 21 2017 at 4:16am
glad to hear it's all OK and coming together nicely.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 21 2017 at 7:18pm
keep us informed if you please , some of us have not had a "new to us" in a good long time , we live vicariously you know 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 22 2017 at 5:30am
Count on it!Tongue


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 2:45pm
OK, the Upper handguard arrived. Its an Aussie "Slazenger", so coachwood I assume. Its actually a fair bit darker than the picture of it I ordered from, which is fine as its a close match to the existing wood color.
I have some water-based walnut stain that I think will do the job nicely. The wood is utterly dry & unfinished, apparently this is correct for how they left the factory I'm told. The end cap seems parkerized? & is riveted, not screwed. It also looks like the ears are perfect, if a little long, I guess a bit of trimming & hand fitting is in order.

As it arrived.


After staining & drying.


Now all I have to do is apply oil to this part while removing it from everything else at the same time so they match at the end of the day!


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: September 05 2017 at 12:54pm
Well the birthday is complete for the old lady. Nothing drastic, just removing a ton of oil from the wood, replacing both handguards for the fingers & to not have the badly split lower handguard it came with. The front metal darkened back nicely with just oiling, so I didn't paint it. The screws were worked on, or replaced to fix the damaged slots & ratty finish.

The P-H 5A is now aligned in all 3 axis so that's a help because now the vertical & horizontal adjustments are only vertical & horizontal with no drift from not being square or plumb to the action.

The new front handguard was made slightly oversize so I was able to make it a snug fit. All it took was some sanding on the bottom to allow the nosecap to fit snugly to the front ferrule & a trim of the back of the fingers as it would drop in at the rear sight. 2 Coats of the walnut dye (made from wild walnuts that grow right behind me) & 7 hand rubbed coats of BLO. Its really close to matching the 100 year old original wood. Just a hair lighter. Every image I see of fingered ones has a slight gap, I made one here too as I guess its like the butt-stock where there is an intentional slight gap to not beat up the ends under recoil?

I added a piling swivel & a "king screw" sling swivel. I know its not 100% authentic but I have a use for both of them so I did it anyway.

Finally I polished (not ground) the upper bottom sear face & the trigger bumps with my usual oiled ScotchBrite as they were a bit gritty. Now they're slick & smooth & have a 3 1/2Lb 1st & a 4 3/4Lb second pressure.

I know, Shaddup & show us some pictures!

Nosecap details.
(before on top & after on bottom)



Before (top) & after (bottom) left side.



Before (top) & after (bottom) right side.



I like the way it came out, keeping the character, but nicer, not quite so "Rode hard & put up wet".



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: September 05 2017 at 2:26pm
You perform nice work, Shamu! That rifle looks lovely!

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: September 05 2017 at 3:37pm
Thanks, sometimes less is more I guess.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: evanguy
Date Posted: September 05 2017 at 3:51pm
Thats looks good. matches just fine i think, maybe needs a few dents lol, also nice work on getting the sight setup, i have the same one on my 1918 bsa trainer.

Sooooooo..., what are you going to doing with the front handguard thats is missing the fingers? I happen to have the back half of a handguard from the band back, if you want to part with it some day send me a pm.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: September 05 2017 at 6:56pm
turned out beautiful from here , cant ask for a better match in my book , it looks like a set to me 


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: September 06 2017 at 4:19am
Looking good Shamu. Now you can work up some loads for it at the range!


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: MJ11
Date Posted: September 19 2017 at 7:15pm
It has been very interesting watching this post as it moved along. WELL DONE !




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The Spartans do not ask how many the enemies are but where they are


Posted By: IrvingSilverstein
Date Posted: July 18 2018 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Well the birthday is complete for the old lady. Nothing drastic, just removing a ton of oil from the wood, replacing all the http://https://theskinnyvibes.com/phenq-reviews-and-results/" rel="nofollow -


Your did a good work in removing the excess oil from the wood. Now it doen'tlook glossy. Great job.


Posted By: RickRadcliffe
Date Posted: January 26 2019 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Well the birthday is complete for the old lady. Nothing drastic, just removing a ton of oil from the wood, replacing both handguards for the fingers & to not have the badly split lower handguard it came with. The front metal darkened back nicely with just  https://alvenda.com/dbal-max-review/" rel="nofollow -


Posted By: JohnChandler
Date Posted: April 25 2019 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by Stansforth Stansforth wrote:

I don't compete with anyone except myself.
Every month I go to Bisley with a few of my rifles with two objectives. Firstly to work up the best load for the particular rifle and then, when I am happy, I try the get  https://asean-wen.org/phenq-reviews/" rel="nofollow - It was FTR'd somewhere in '42 (I think because that's the barrel date).


Posted By: GeorgeMurch
Date Posted: June 19 2019 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by Stanforths Stanforths wrote:

I don't compete with anyone except myself.
Every month I go to Bisley with a few of my rifles with two objectives. Firstly to work up the best load for the particular rifle and then, when I am happy, I try the get  https://theskinnyvibes.com/phenq-reviews-and-results/" rel="nofollow - I have recently purchased a 1940 BSA&Co ShtLe III that sports a beech wood buttstock, and no.4 buttplate


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 20 2019 at 6:39am
Originally posted by RickRadcliffe RickRadcliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Well the birthday is complete for the old lady. Nothing drastic, just removing a ton of oil from the wood, replacing both handguards for the fingers & to not have the badly split lower handguard it came with. The front metal darkened back nicely with just  https://alvenda.com/dbal-max-review/" rel="nofollow -



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