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No4 mk1* markings

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Rifles
Forum Description: Anything that has to do with the great Enfield rifles!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9378
Printed Date: March 26 2026 at 5:24pm
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Topic: No4 mk1* markings
Posted By: Andy s
Subject: No4 mk1* markings
Date Posted: December 02 2018 at 10:16am
please can anyone identify these markings on my long branch please.



Replies:
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: December 02 2018 at 12:03pm
is there any other marking's on the rifle? LH side of the receiver?

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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: December 02 2018 at 4:22pm
agree - those are not clear enough nor tell the whole story here , check the left side of the wrist and reciever , whats on the knox and barrel as well as the bolt and rear sight , also may be some on the wood furniture and the buttplate , 

post more photos and get more/better info , 


Posted By: maxwell smart
Date Posted: December 02 2018 at 11:43pm
Italian proof marks I think - 2014 date?


Posted By: Andy s
Date Posted: December 03 2018 at 10:45am
hope these can help


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: December 03 2018 at 11:46am
Matching numbers 1942 Longbranch; it's a shame that it's deactivated.

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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: December 03 2018 at 1:53pm
Why do you think its deactivated?


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: December 03 2018 at 4:28pm
agree 6L puts it in early 42 production - 1L-20L for that year , 


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: December 04 2018 at 12:30pm
Look at the bolt lugs. They've been ground at an angle.

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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: December 04 2018 at 1:40pm
WOW! yes its a deact, I missed that completely.
I hope he knows as he said nothing
Censored


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: December 04 2018 at 4:43pm
Question.  If that lug was cut like that to deactivate the rifle. What else should you look for? I've seen a hole drilled into and through the chamber, breech plugs,a steel rod welded into the barrel. The obvious  stuff to deactivate  a rifle. Here's why I ask this particular question. I bought a No4Mk1  in my late teens from a pawn shop. Got it home and disassembled it to clean it. My bolt looked just like the one in the picture. Didn't look normal to me so I swapped it for a spare I had. Took it out and shot it. No issues,that I was aware of.  I'm assuming I was lucky to not have something happen. The other thing that is bugging me is that i sold it a few years later to a friend of mine and he sold it to a friend of his. It is currently in a safe in Provo Utah right now. It's taken a half dozen mule deer so far. Should I call this guy and tell him to stop using it?


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: December 04 2018 at 5:29pm
im not seein that photo ????


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: December 04 2018 at 5:45pm


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: December 04 2018 at 5:56pm
oh yes - not good 


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: December 05 2018 at 4:26am
I expect there is more than just the bolt affected by the de-activation. I don't know the details of the UK de-activation laws; but I do believe they are one of the strictest. Some older de-act's may be less molested.
Maybe one of our UK resident's could confirm what is normal. There sems to be a big market for de-activated weapons in the UK. When you see a 4T de-activated; you really wonder why?


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Twodogs
Date Posted: December 05 2018 at 10:43am
Hi
Yes the deactivation regulations here in the UK are quite strict, certainly going to have a hard time of reactivating anything that has been through this process.

Guidance on deactivated bolt action rifles, FYIO.

Bolt Action Rifles

  • The chamber is slotted for its entirety; barrel is slotted (two different options) or three calibre sized holes are drilled into it or a 'V' slot is cut into it; the barrel is permanently fixed to the receiver with a hard steel pin (50% chamber diameter) that passes through the chamber and is welded in place; a tight fitting hard steel rod is inserted from the chamber for 2/3 length of the barrel and welded in place through the barrel slot/holes
  • The bolt face is cut back at around 45 degrees and the firing pin is ground back; the firing pin channel is welded; locking lugs are weakened usually by reducing their size
  • A pin is fixed across the magazine well/receiver preventing insertion of a standard magazine
  • The magazine is adapted by adding two slots either side or front and back to allow it to pass either side of the pin in the magazine well
  • EU+ Deactivated bolt action rifles have fully working actions, dry-fire and can be fully stripped apart from the barrel. The adapted magazine can be removed.
To be read in conjunction with the latest EU guidance - 

General Principles

Guidance Notes

Prevent the disassembly of the firearms essential components by welding, bonding or by using appropriate measures with the equivalent degree of permanence. 

Appropriate measures includes the use of blind pinning using a hardened steel pin.

Depending on national laws, this process can be performed after the checking of the National Authority. 

Double submissions will be required in all cases where the certifying body cannot readily inspect the arm to ensure that all work has been carried out in compliance with the regulation.

Hardness of inserts: Deactivating entity has to ensure that pins/plugs/rods used have a hardness of at least 40 HRC and that material used for welding ensures a permanent and effective bond.

The hardness of pins, plugs and rods should be = 40 HRC prior to welding. The onus is on the submitter to ensure that the material sourced is of the correct hardness before welding it on the firearm. A sample of each should be supplied for retention by the Proof Authority as spot checks will be carried out by them and other official bodies.

Arms falling outside of the scope of the EU regulation should continue to be deactivated in accordance with ‘Specifications for the adaptation of shotgun magazines and the deactivation of firearms, revised 2010’.


Arms deactivated prior to the introduction of the regulation submitted for re-certification can still be issued with a UK valid only certificate. It must be noted that should the arm subsequently be sold, exported or fall within the remit of the regulation in any way, it must be brought up to the specification of the EU regulation.





Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: December 05 2018 at 2:18pm
Thanks for that info.
Our main concern is that he (the O.P.) may think its a shooter as he didn't mention Dewat anywhere.



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: December 05 2018 at 5:01pm
Thank you for that information.  I can totally understand  deactivating  a rifle when it has gone beyond useful  operations.  Why are so many,what appeared to have been good shooting weapons deactivated in the UK?


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: December 05 2018 at 5:59pm
its the law - i do not get why civilized nations would willingly disarm and leave themselves vulnerable but that is an issue we deal with every day here as well , freedom depends on the peple having the say , we have a say because our constitution left us armed , otherwise the opposition would put us in servatude - think it notpossible ? think again , 


Posted By: MarkG
Date Posted: December 05 2018 at 6:31pm
I would guess there just aren't enough shooters left in the UK to own all the guns that are available. Over there, you have to get permission from the police for every rifle you buy; you can't just buy an Enfield on a whim because it looks lonely and add it to your other fifty historic rifles.

But it could be worse. I heard stories of the UK government melting down boxes full of historic pistols after Blair's pistol ban in the 90s. Better deactivated than destroyed.



Posted By: Twodogs
Date Posted: December 06 2018 at 8:11am

Slightly off topic, but in relation to MarkG's observations.

The Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 was introduced in the United Kingdom by the Conservative government of John Major in response to the Dunblane School Massacre and the recommendations of the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cullen_Reports" rel="nofollow - C ullen Report that followed it.

It effectively banned the possession of ALL  handguns other than those chambered for .22 rimfire cartridges by civilians. I lost all my handguns in this cull, melted down I was led to believe.

Tony Blair's Labour Government followed later in the year with the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_%28Amendment%29_%28No._2%29_Act_1997" rel="nofollow - Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997  which banned .22 handguns.

Yes we do need to get authorised by the Police, but they authorise a specified number and calibre of weapons for each and every firearms certificate issued. Any weapon you purchase must comply with all conditions. The Police also specify where each firearm can be used. The Police also get a medical certificate from your doctor stating that you are fit to own a firearm. Your home and security arrangements are inspected. The amount of ammunition allowed to be purchased and owned is also controlled. Ow and it may take up to six months from application to get your certificate.



Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: December 06 2018 at 7:41pm
That truly sounds like an atrocity to you and your fellow citizens. I do not know about any other states here in the United States but I do know that,here in Arizona, you do not need a permit to own a firearm, excluding full automatic weapons. We have the right to open carry, including concealed carry. No FFL or C&R permits needed to sell to private owners. We do have to fill out paperwork when buying a weapon from a sporting goods store or gun shop to pass a background check.  If it comes back as delay, a 7-10 day waiting period is issued. If you do not pass the delay,no sales. You can still purchase from a private owner however. I have always had to wait the required 7-10 days but that is because of where I was born,Augsburg Germany. We have a wide variety of small and medium  game animals here and us as Arizonans take full advantage of that fact and will typically have a rifle,shotgun,pistol,black powder rifle and pistol just for all the different hunts we have. We also have a large grouping of shooting ranges as well. Indoor and outdoor. This is not a thumbing my nose at you. Please do not assume that. I am truly sorry that is how it is across the pond...


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: December 07 2018 at 6:47am
Goosic, does the delay come from the federal or state level? The reason I ask is that I have never once had the NICS check come back as delay and I was born in Landstuhl, Germany.


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: December 07 2018 at 9:00am
Bear: Were you born on a U.S.Military base?

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: December 07 2018 at 9:25am
Yes, I was born at the Army hospital in Landstuhl.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: December 07 2018 at 12:03pm
Most tings like this go directly to what the U.S. would call Federal.
Britain is much smaller than the U.K. so a single, national organization makes sense there.
CRO ( a bit like NICS) is National, Fingerprints are a national database & so on.
The local firearms dept (U.S. county police equivalent) forward the initial paperwork to the Home office (federal) for dabs & records, & so on.
Months is the time-frame, god knows why. Back in the days of manual fingerprint comparisons it made sense, all the "little old Grannies" doing the comparing were always backed up & criminal cases bumped firearms checks back all the time.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: December 07 2018 at 6:12pm
MarkG - "But it could be worse. I heard stories of the UK government melting down boxes full of historic pistols after Blair's pistol ban in the 90s. Better deactivated than destroyed." 

you mean these ???? i still have a few ............


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: December 07 2018 at 8:11pm
I was born off base in an actual German hospital. I do not know exactly where the delay is coming from. I've never had to wait longer then 48 hours either. I spent a weekend  in the Maricopa County jail  for drag racing on public highways one night. I doubt  that is reason for the delay though. 


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: December 08 2018 at 8:35pm
i know where my delays come from - first i have a most common name for that matter when you add my middle name it becomes even more common and had my first and last been reversed as originally intended it would be the most common , 
second i was born in another state , 
its a momentary delay but predictable every time , for years and many guns , i should make my wife buy from now on - she will inherit them all after all , she was born at the pearl harbor hospital , in the year hawaii became a state 




Posted By: Stanforth
Date Posted: December 09 2018 at 4:28am
Not all pistols were confiscated here in the UK..  This is one of 3 cabinets of pistols that I own.

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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.


Posted By: Stanforth
Date Posted: December 09 2018 at 4:43am
And some rifles..
 
 


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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.


Posted By: Stanforth
Date Posted: December 09 2018 at 4:54am
And a few Remingtons

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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: December 09 2018 at 8:38am
My little gun store here has a dozen rolling blocks for sale. No more then 450.00 US for them.  Three Spencer's in 45/70 1000.00 for all three or 350.00 apiece...


Posted By: Stanforth
Date Posted: December 09 2018 at 10:43am
Get them mover here and I will buy the lot, cash, at asking price  Thumbs Up

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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: December 09 2018 at 5:36pm
yup - and they all still shoot too , drop by - ill show you , but call first , 


Posted By: Stanforth
Date Posted: December 10 2018 at 1:00am
Unfortunately it's rather a long walk.

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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.



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