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Reloading 303 with crimp |
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Goosic 
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Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8842 |
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 Posted: September 18 2023 at 2:34pm |
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I believe the biggest question some of us have here edteach is, Are you actually resizing the cases and that includes the neck as well?
Even with the Lee Loader Whack-A-Mole that doesn't have an expander ball you still get a decently resized neck so your comment that the bullet easily pushes back into the case is a little concerning due to you stating that you are using Lee Dies...
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britrifles
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Posted: September 18 2023 at 3:06pm |
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Yup, something not right here, a crimping die is not the best way to address the issue.
Crimping rifle cartridges seems to have been in favor 20+ years ago, but I don’t know anyone reloading for current and historic/vintage service rifles who crimp the cases, not even for the M1 and AR rifles. My own tests showed no improvement in accuracy, and on occasion, detrimental to accuracy if cases are not all trimmed to the exact same length and crimps were moderate to heavy. Crimping a bullet loose in the case, no telling what the results will be. We have given our best advice, but sometimes we have to learn these things on our own.
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Shamu
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Posted: September 18 2023 at 4:05pm |
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I noticed he says "with a set of Lee dies", that doesn't sound like a Whack-a-mole to me but a press & dies. That would mean an resizing die of some kind with an expander ball. I'd like to see the diameter of the mic'd somewhere. Preferably with a "before" & "after" case neck I.D. too. That seem to be the real problem.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
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Posted: September 18 2023 at 4:39pm |
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Agree, something not right with the reloading dies if the bullets can easily be pushed into the case. Standard dies should give sufficient neck tension such that the bullets can’t LE pushed into the case with 30 lbs of force. I typically measure 45 lbs with .002 inches of interference on .308 Win loads in my arbor press with force pack gage. .303 will be very similar.
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Goosic
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Posted: September 21 2023 at 5:31am |
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After repeated testing using full length and neck sizing only dies from Lyman, RCBS, Redding, and Lee, I can safely attest to the fact that in all probabilities, it is not the dies. The only way I was able to duplicate the OP's issue was to NOT resize the case or the case neck and instead, just use the seating die only.
If you disregard the loading procedure with a Lee-Loader "Whack-A-Mole" and go straight to the seating step, you get the same results. Recheck to make certain that the resizing die is correctly adjusted to the make of your reloading press, especially if you are using the Lee Collet dies...
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Shamu
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Posted: September 21 2023 at 10:07am |
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Easy way to tell is "smoke smudge" the case then run it into the die as you would when loading normally. the soot should be removed as the die resizes then expands the neck inside & out. That will tell you the amount & position of the resizing die's contact, simple inside & outside diameters measured with a caliper will tell you the diameters.  |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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slowindown
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 9:17am |
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Similar issue here. I have the lee pace setter 3-die set for when I have to full length size. I sized some once fired hxp brass (fired from someone else's rifle). After sizing, when using 150 or 174 grain hornady soft points with a cannelure, when seating the bullet and the edge of the brass gets to the cannelure, the bullet gets loose. The bullet will move up and down the distance of the cannelure. So I had to crimp. I had another expander in the die box, which is .310 and put it in the die for the next time I use it. I had to get a smaller expander for my 7.62x39 dies too, .308 I believe. The crimped x39 didn't shoot noticeably different than the tighter non-crimped ones. I hope that holds true for the ~40 303 I loaded.
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Goosic
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 10:57am |
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Try measuring the diameter of those bullets. If you are using a .310" expander and those Hornady bullets are .310" to .3105", not alot of gripping to the case wall is going on.
I have the Hornady 174grn FMJ-BT projectiles and everyone is .311". My RCBS die has the .310" expander ball and that leaves me with .001" of tension with no crimping needed. Double check everything. Your answer to your dilemma is in there somewhere. If anything, use the .308" expander in your 303 die.
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slowindown
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 11:25am |
I found my notes from couple years ago when I messed with them before. The bullets measure .312 as did the expander that came in the die. Apparently the reason that I had the smaller expander is because i went through this before. I called Lee and they said I need the.310 one. Apparently I just forgot to put it in the die. I will try it out this weekend. I’m also trying to figure out whether I want to unload these rounds I did and re-do them or just shoot them. Relatedly, the mandrel in my Lee neck sizing die is supposed to be .3085. I’ve never used it. |
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Mayhem
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 4:07pm |
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Personally, I would pull and reload. No point wasting components.
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.303 - Helping Englishmen express their feelings since 1889
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britrifles
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 6:02pm |
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I would pull the bullets and neck size the case removing the decapping pin.
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slowindown
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 8:05pm |
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I’ve not used the neck die before as I just bought it but if I take the mandrel out won’t the neck be too small after I neck size.
I also have a whack a mole loader. It has been so long since I used it that I can’t recall if you can size the necks without setting off the primers
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britrifles
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Posted: February 03 2024 at 2:28am |
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I keep a second mandrel for the collet die with the decapping pin ground off.
Alternatively, back your FL die out a turn and use it as a neck sizer. |
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Goosic
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Posted: February 03 2024 at 3:26am |
Using a small plastic mallet, you can resize the neck of the primed cartridges in that Whack-A-Mole...
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slowindown
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Posted: February 03 2024 at 4:02am |
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Thanks gentlemen. It's supposed to rain this afternoon and tomorrow here so I should have some time to break these down and re-do them.
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Shamu
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Posted: February 03 2024 at 3:02pm |
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"It has been so long since I used it that I can’t recall if you can size the necks without setting off the primers " its possible, but I wouldn't go bashing them with a mallet. Slower squeeze in a press is safer. The decapping stem inst used when resizing in the Lee & there's a hole below the prime seater to help prevent shock discharges. You do have to be extra careful with the Whack-a-mole though as the seating die has an open top.  |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Goosic wrote: