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Sight Adjustment Tool

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Stevejo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevejo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2020 at 5:45pm
thanks for the good info. 
Honestly not sure of the origin of my “sporter” except what it used to be. #1 mk MIII BSA made in 1919 that my grandfather owned and probably paid $11 for. Lol. 
All I know is that it shoots ridiculously high. 
Any chance that removing the wood would effect the point of impact in that manner?
I’ve had the same issue with mosins and Mausers. 
Supposedly either the shooting doctrine of the day to “aim at their feet or belt buckle” or the russia doctrine (supposedly) of having the bayonet affixed all the time and the thing being zeroed with it in place. 
Really not sure about any of that, but I do know the barrel isn’t bent or anything of that nature. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2020 at 12:07am
Originally posted by Stevejo Stevejo wrote:

.............. of having the bayonet affixed all the time and the thing being zeroed with it in place. 


The ammunition you use has a big effect on POI, not having properly bedded (full length) woodwork, a loose front-trigger-guard screw and many other little features will all affect POI


Todays Interesting Facts – The Effect On POI When A Bayonet Is Fixed

 

Source :

“Musketry Regulations Part 1”

1909 (With Amendments 1914)

Issued by the General Staff – War Office.

 

Summary :

With a SMLE & with MkVI ammunition there is no effect to the POI when the bayonet is fixed.

With a SMLE & with MkVII ammunition there is a 4 feet Rise in POI at 600 yds when the bayonet is fixed.

With a Lee Metford, or CLLE there is a 6 feet drop, and 2 feet to the right change in the POI at 600 yds when using MkVI ammunition with the bayonet fixed.

With a Lee Metford, or CLLE there is a negligible effect in the POI when using MkVII ammunition with the bayonet fixed.

 

YES – that is correct – with the CLLE / Lee Metford the POI is NOT AFFECTED when using MkVII with the bayonet fixed, but with the SMLE the POI is  NOT AFFECTED when using MkVI with the bayonet fixed..







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2020 at 10:52am
Parker Hale also did the same things to #1 Mk3's



If that gun is shooting that goofy there has to be something wrong. Having the bayonet fixed will only mess with the barrel harmonics. You wouldn't sight the gun in with the bayonet fixed if you expected any normal accuracy from it.

I didn't get what ammo you are using but I would suggest a readily available Factory ammo like from SGA Ammo/Privi-Partisan 150 gr. Try for dead on at 200 yards which should be about 1-2" high at 100 yards.

If you reload,,, DO NOT Full length Size the cases or will will only get 1-2 reloads before they separate. Neck size only and preferably with a Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die which works the brass least of anything out there.

The chambers in all Enfield's are "generous" and made that way so they would accept any ammo loaded thruout the Empire. If you full length size it reshaped s the case dramatically.

Here's a pic of an un-fired Factory Round and a Reloaded Once Fired Case from my gun.



Once you find a load that shoots decent stick with it.  Chasing loads around in a gun like this is pointless. It is what it is just go shoot something with it and have fun.

Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 6:50pm
I have to tell you, I love this board.  I was shooting my first enfield - Lithgow 1945 No.1 MkIII*.  Beautiful condition but at ~100yards I was shooting high right, so I manually adjusted to hit the target.  PPU 174 factory.  Before I blame the rifle I will shoot it a few more times but this thread was really interesting. Anyway, I am going to put a few rounds down range tomorrow and will revisit this chat when done.  I'll try with and without the bayonet.  I was wondering - the tool we reviewed - it appears to shift the front sight left or right - what about Up and Down?  As said I was High-Right - this tool would adjust the Right, but not the High.   I wonder if High is the type of Ammo and lack of Bayonet being used?   I'll experiment and see if I can control for "operator error".

Also, I guess we have to put ourselves back into the battlefield - while it is great to hit the #10 circle in 1 inch patterns, a person does tend to offer a bigger cross section.   Maybe 4" in just fine for a battle rifle.  I'm not sure if this is flawed logic as I never served.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WilliamS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 9:58pm
Your lowest setting on the No1 rear sight is 200 yards, so you should be hitting high at 100 yards if you are properly zeroed.

If you are still high (or low) at 200 yards, the front sight blade would be swapped for a different height to correct. There's a number of them in 0.015" increments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 11:29pm
Windage corrections are made by pushing the front sight right or left using a tool like the BPM one. One flat on the bolt head = .006 movement.   .008 = 1 MOA with the Enfield Sight Radius. So close enough.

Elevation corrections at Mechanical Zero are carried out by changing the front sight to one of 9 different ones available.  These are made in .015 increments which equates to a 2 MOA jump for each different blade.

To properly zero the gun you would set the rear sight to 200 yards and then shoot it at 200 yards. If you are dead on you have achieved what is known as "Mechanical Zero" and the trajectory should follow the yardage marks on the rear sight.

However that rear sight is calibrated for the velocity/trajectory of whatever "Ball Ammo" was being used. If the round is slower it will be off on the low side or you would have to compensate by shooting higher.

Once you have your mechanical zero make sure to record what ammo you used for future use. Typically you would want to use the fastest ammo available to you as Heavier bullets will require only Positive Elevation changes and there isn't really a convenient way to do negative elevation changes.

It should be noted that all guns need to be sighted in this same way IE: Establishing a Mechanical Zero with the fastest Ammo you would normally shoot, and then recording the elevation offsets for other types of ammo at different ranges.

You always reset you sights to Mechanical Zero after shooting so you always know exactly where the gun is going to shoot next time out.

Hope this helps to further the understanding of this sighting system.

Randy

It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 6:40am
thanks Randy.  These instructions are excellent and very helpful. As I was wondering how to zero on the rifle.  Currently I only have access to a 100 yd range but will search for. 200 in my area. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 7:11am
Originally posted by WilliamS WilliamS wrote:

Your lowest setting on the No1 rear sight is 200 yards, so you should be hitting high at 100 yards if you are properly zeroed.

If you are still high (or low) at 200 yards, the front sight blade would be swapped for a different height to correct. There's a number of them in 0.015" increments.
This makes sense WS. I also need to measure the distance of our range as we are all just estimating the range. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 8:15am
You could also use this "ladder target".
just print it out at "exact size & aim at the bottom flat of the "bull".
depending on where you're actually sighted for YOUR ammo & rifle you can make adjustments.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 8:16am
Here it is  dimensioned in case you want to make one with felt markers or something.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 8:26am
Just to clarify. The sighting target above is used at 25 yards. 
It actually works well. I used this method for my first ever competition at 200 metres. my local range is only 50 metres and at that time I'd never had the opportunity to shoot a longer distance. So I set the rifle to 200; it was good on the 25 test target and correct when set to 400 yards as well. It was nicely on the target at the 200 metre range (220 yards) for the competition. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 8:27am
Yes 25 yards, sorry I should have mentioned that "little detail" Censored
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 10:56am
These are common numbers when sighting in Battle Rifles. On AR's the 25 yard POA/POI should yield a 100 yard zero and 50 yard POA/POI a 200 yard zero. However they need to be verified at the longer range to correct for minor deviations not seen at the closer range. 

All of the common military cartridges produce very similar trajectories. As such I use the same offsets for .303, .308 .30-06 etc. The actual "Differences" in POI are minimal when shooting at a man sized target, which as we all know the intended purpose of said firearms

This brings us to "Point Blank Range."

"Point-blank range is any distance over which a certain firearm can hit a target without the need to compensate for bullet drop."  (Wikipedia)

Typically a Battle Rifle is sighted in with a Mechanical Zero or Base Zero in the vacinity of the Point Blank Range of the firearm.

Point Blank Range for an Enfield is between 250-300 yards.  With a 200 yard zero my gun will be 12" below POA at 300, same numbers are true for my .308 Scout Rifle and .30-06 rifles. all of which are sighted at 200 yards. Correcting the sights for 300M/ 330 yards requires a +4MOA offset. 385M/420 yards is +7.5MOA and 500M/550 yards is +12.75MOA.  The difference between 200M and 200 yards is .5 MOA or 1" so I don't change the sights for that range.

It should be noted that these offsets are the same if using a Lyman or Redfield Receiver type sight or an Optic and all of these offsets have been verified at all the different ranges many times. Optimally you would want to shoot your gun at all the various ranges 200,300,400,500,600,800,1000 M or yards to verify your trajectory out to the farthest distance you would possibly shoot. Obviously this requires a place to do it and that is where most fall behind.  I am blessed with a  600 yard range at my club which is located at a defunct WWII Navy Training Facility just north of Ojai CA.

My .223 Carbines also follow the same basic Trajectory and are sighted in at 200 yards with their Red Dot Sights. they are 12" low at 300 so holding on the head of a man sized target will yield a hit Center Mass.  I might add that this is not very hard to do off a rest.  I can hit a man sized target every single time at 200 yards off a rest and about 8/10 at 300 depending on the wind.

My point here is that all of these guns are sighted in exactly the same way because the Trajectories of their bullets are nearly Identical. Trajectory can be calculated by any of the numerous Computerized Ballistic Programs available by simply knowing the Velocity and Ballistic Coefficient of the ammo you are using. This is what I did originally and was amazed that the bullets followed the trajectory given like they were on a string! Your's will too!

That said, I have other guns which require different settings.  My .22's all are sighted in dead on at 75 yards. this yields 1" high at 50 yards and 3" low at 100. My PC Carbine in .40 S&W is sighted the same way and works well using the same holdovers.

So I hope this furthers the understanding of of this discipline.

Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 11:58am
Exactly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SGonger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Yes 25 yards, sorry I should have mentioned that "little detail" Censored
I heard (was told a tidbit) & read the Canuck’s used 30yds for some particular reason instead of the 25yd zeroing in.
Anyone seen the Tardis Box anywhere? 🤨
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2021 at 2:11pm
30 yds is 25 meters maybe?
Well, almost, 27!
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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