![]() |
Strange Borescope Image |
Post Reply
|
Page 12> |
| Author | |
britrifles
Senior Member
Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Topic: Strange Borescope ImagePosted: February 13 2024 at 5:33pm |
|
While we are talking borescopes and bore cleaning, thought I would share these photos. The rifle is a No. 4 Mk 2 7.62 DCRA Conversion. 1960s Long Branch 4 groove. I noticed this strange pattern in the grooves of the rifling the first time I borescoped it. Lands are perfectly smooth, no such marks.
Not all grooves have this pattern of what looks to be etching of the steel. Keep in mind, this is highly magnified. There are four lands and grooves, and two of them have very little of this. One has almost none. The worst one runs for about 15 inches of the bore starting about 6 inches forward of the chamber. Had to turn the borescope camera light way down to be able to see it, as the bore has a very bright finish. Any thoughts on what this is? Does not affect accuracy at all, this is my best No. 4 shooter. Has about 2300 rounds thru the barrel. Got to pull out the T which has a CMk4 1950’s barrel, I think it has a similar feature. Almost like microscopic worms ate their way into the steel along the surface. ![]() |
|
![]() |
|
DarioPirovano
Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2023 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 219 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February 13 2024 at 5:44pm |
|
Same things that are in my no4 mk2 barrel
|
|
![]() |
|
SW28fan
Special Member
Donating Member Joined: July 02 2007 Location: Texas Status: Online Points: 3389 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February 13 2024 at 5:49pm |
|
I'll show the image to the metallurgy guy at work, but my best guess is corrosion
|
|
|
Have a Nice Day
If already having a nice day please disregard |
|
![]() |
|
britrifles
Senior Member
Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February 13 2024 at 6:03pm |
|
I think so too, but didn’t want to discount some type of etching. The only bore cleaners that have been used on it up to the point I first saw it was Hoppes 9 and Sweets. Since then, I’ve used several others, Butches Bore Shine, Bore Tech Eliminator and C4 and JB. Never mix any of these together.
Dad had fired perhaps 10 rounds thru this rifle after the conversion to 7.62, and perhaps without removing all the fouling and sitting in the basement for 25+ years, corrosion had started under the fouling.
|
|
![]() |
|
britrifles
Senior Member
Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February 13 2024 at 6:05pm |
|
Here is one of the worst areas.
![]() |
|
![]() |
|
DarioPirovano
Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2023 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 219 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February 13 2024 at 8:00pm |
|
I think it is nothing to be worried for almost 70yrs old steel, just keep it oiled, maybe a JB treatment could reduce it… looks very light probably it’s pitting formation beginning
|
|
![]() |
|
britrifles
Senior Member
Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February 14 2024 at 3:53am |
|
This is a good example of why routine and effective barrel cleaning is important.
I suspect this was caused by ineffective cleaning and long term storage causing corrosion under the carbon fouling. Dad would have likely used Hoppes 9 only, and that won’t remove the copper and hard carbon as I now know from borscope inspections. He only shot it once, but there would have been a lot of copper left in the bore being a new barrel. He likely oiled or greased the bore after cleaning, but that won’t do much for the areas covered in copper and hard carbon.
If you look close at the second pic, you can see numerous small black specs where the JB was not removed by the post-JB wipe with Kroil on a patch. These are probably the deeper pits. Wrapping a patch around a bronze brush with Kroil will probably remove the JB in these pits. |
|
![]() |
|
Zed
Special Member
Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6460 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: February 14 2024 at 4:03am |
|
Looks like some surface corrosion has etched into it.
I suspect it's been there a long time.
|
|
|
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
|
|
![]() |
|
britrifles
Senior Member
Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February 14 2024 at 7:13am |
|
Yes, it has to be that.
I'd guess the depth is < 0.0005 inches, maybe only around 0.0002. It's not on the lands at all, I think that is because the lands clean up fairly easy when using a patch and jag (higher friction on the lands from the patch than in the grooves). He shot this rifle just once with the new replacement 7.62 barrel in 1966 (I found the page in his reloading data book), and then it sat unused until I got it around 2003. The corrosion had a long time to act on the barrel. When I got it, Dad did not remember ever having shot this rifle and I did not have a borescope back then. Visually the barrel looked perfect. I have a vague recollection of cleaning the bore before I shot it with Hoppe's and seeing some carbon/copper come out, and I thought that must have been from proof firing at Long Branch following the conversion. So I followed the barrel break in process using Hoppes and Sweets; and it's remained relatively free of fouling since then with just routine cleaning. This is the rifle I use for long range shooting (800 and 1000 yards), and it's shot some sub-MOA groups. Dad kept his rifles in the basement at home which was quite humid in the summer months. I remember at times we had a dehumidifier running. Winter would have been dry, especially once we installed a wood stove in the basement and used it to heat the house. |
|
![]() |
|
SW28fan
Special Member
Donating Member Joined: July 02 2007 Location: Texas Status: Online Points: 3389 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February 14 2024 at 2:03pm |
|
The Metallurgy guy thinks it is the result of light surface rust that has been removed.
He has seen this before when light corrosion has been removed.
|
|
|
Have a Nice Day
If already having a nice day please disregard |
|
![]() |
|
britrifles
Senior Member
Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February 14 2024 at 2:15pm |
|
Thanks Paul, seems there is good consensus it is removed corrosion. Likely the JB that removed it, or past times when I’ve brushed the bore. It just looks odd under magnification.
I just inspected the CMk 4 Long Branch six groove barrel on the T, and it looks very similar for about an 8 inch length of the barrel, also at the middle band location. The rest looks very good. ![]() |
|
![]() |
|
Rossfield
Groupie
Joined: June 08 2024 Location: Nova Albion Status: Offline Points: 37 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 16 2024 at 8:11am |
|
The pits appear slightly "smeared" in the photo above this post; that is to say the edges appear slightly rounded over. I have seen the same effect on steel surfaces I have removed rust from with a wire wheel so I would conclude abrasive paste or brushing (stainless steel brush?) has done the same here. Were corrosive primers used on early production 7.62mm ammo I wonder?
|
|
![]() |
|
Marco1010
Senior Member
Joined: February 04 2020 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 406 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 20 2024 at 1:49pm |
|
Its pitting corrosion alright, typical pattern I see all the time on steel where there is corrosion under insulation on pipework. Will have formed from residual oxides in the forging process when the barrels were made. The buildup of fouling over the decades has to an extent stopped it being much worse than it could have been. More modern barrel forging methods tend to prevent this nowdays.
|
|
![]() |
|
Shamu
Admin Group
Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 20510 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 20 2024 at 3:21pm |
|
They are so light I very much doubt they'd effect accuracy. Sweets is a strong ammonia solvent. Might that have cause micro-etching from being in the barrel past the "10-15minutes" mentioned in its instructions? Maybe its me, maybe its the lighting from the bore-scope, but I see two things intermixed in the "worst area" image? 1:"Spiderwebs", etched into the surface. I say that because the interfere with the machining marks along the length by "breaking through" them. 2: "oily pools" laid on top of the bore metal, which appear to be laid on top of them just below the reflections of the bore-scope lights reflection?
![]() |
|
|
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
|
|
![]() |
|
britrifles
Senior Member
Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 20 2024 at 4:33pm |
|
Does not affect accuracy, this is my most accurate No. 4. My Dad had the rifle sent to Long Branch thru DCRA for the conversion. When he gave me the rifle, he didn’t think he had ever fired it, but in searching his shooting and reloading records, I found he had shot 10 rounds of Canadian Service Ball ammo thru it (mid 1960’s). Not very satisfied with how it shot (poor ammo, but he didn’t know that back then), he never fired it again. He would have cleaned the barrel afterwards, but that would not have removed any copper which is particularly bad for the first few dozen rounds on a new barrel, and this is where the fouling would be heaviest (where the pitting is).
I do think it is pitting, likely in an area that the fouling trapped moisture. Dad kept his rifles in our basement which in the summer was quite damp. Nearly 40 years passed until I got the rifle. I followed a barrel break in procedure (thinking it was a new barrel), but did not have a borescope at that time. It’s never had a steel brush put into the bore, but I have used a bronze brush a few times. I can’t completely rule out Sweets, since I did use it early on, but always dry patched it out and followed by cleaning with Hoppes, then gun oil. There well could be some remaining Kroil on the surface, I think I took these images right after cleaning it with JB and Kroil. I”ll send this photo to one of our Manufacturing & Process engineers who specialize in corrosion and see what they say. |
|
![]() |
|
Shamu
Admin Group
Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 20510 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 22 2024 at 2:01pm |
|
I didn't mean to give the impression they were oily patches, just that they looked like that to differentiate from the etched ones.
|
|
|
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
|
|
![]() |
|
Post Reply
|
Page 12> |
| Tweet |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |