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Tell me it’s not the shooter!

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britrifles View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 24 2018 at 5:01pm
Any day at the range beats a day at work. At least for me it does.

But, I’m about to do something drastic with my M1, it just WON’T group. Its a CMP Special with new Criterion barrel and Boyd’s stock (well, 3 years ago it was new, I’ve put a few thousand rounds thru it). And, I’ll bet every suggestion you can come up with, I have checked or tried, except changing the barrel or reciever. It strings rounds vertically. Here’s a Prone Slow target from today at 200 Yards:



Ugly, isn’t it?

I then put the M1 down, picked up my trusty LB No. 4 Mk 1*/3 and shot this group, also Prone Slow at 200 Yards:



One click up on the rear sight and it would have been 100 with a very high X count. The extreme spread was under 2 MOA.

OK, so tell me the problem with my M1 is the shooter....



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britrifles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2018 at 6:46pm
Forgot to also mention the 10 round group in the above photo shot from my No. 4 was with 40.0 gr. Varget under a 174 gr. SMK. I started at 38.0 gr Varget and groups were not that great, 39.0 was a bit better. 40.0 did very well, but the POI is still about 1 MOA below my match load of 40.0 gr. Re 15. I’ll next try 40.5 gr Varget and look for the sweet spot.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2018 at 8:21pm
This my opinion alone.
I've personally have witnessed this with my friends M1.
The issue with the Garand might possibly be the gas operating rod and where it is located on the barrel.
Too much tension on the barrel is being created causing the barrel to be moved in an upward motion,causing the fired rounds to be dispersed horizontally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2018 at 6:15am
There was a trick with the M-14 where you applied downward pressure on the barrel by re-bedding the receivers frame insert & then applied  down force with the band where it hooked into the barreled action.
Is there something similar for the M-1?
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2018 at 9:30am
I am not familiar with the M1; but can you tell if the shot's change as the barrel heats up? or is it completely random?

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2018 at 9:54am
Yup, did all those things.  The op rod moves the bolt with virtually no friction (extremely light), tested this by removing the op rod spring.  I've tried shimming the receiver up at the front end so the stock ferrule pulls down on the barrel lower band; didn't fix it.  Made sure the op rod and barrel has lots of clearance with the stock.  Made sure the barrel is correctly indexed to the receiver, on and on ....
I'm replacing the barrel next.
 
  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2018 at 9:55am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

I am not familiar with the M1; but can you tell if the shot's change as the barrel heats up? or is it completely random?

 
Completely random.  Sometimes it will double group, two very nice tight groups about 6 MOA apart. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2018 at 10:55am
Bad barrel. Show those shots to Criterion and have them give you a replacement barrel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2018 at 11:00am
Have you tried a different brand of bullet? Same weight, just different brand & shape.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2018 at 11:27am
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Bad barrel. Show those shots to Criterion and have them give you a replacement barrel
 
That was my conclusion as well.  It took a few years to figure that out by process of elimination.  The odd thing is that sometimes, it behaves fairly well, a few times shooting into the high 90's and even 100 once or twice, but that's out of thousands of rounds down range. 
 
I've got everything I need to replace the barrel, just have to order one.  I sure hope that resolves it as I enjoy shooting in the CMP matches, but not with this M1, I'm starting to pull my hair out.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2018 at 11:42am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Have you tried a different brand of bullet? Same weight, just different brand & shape.
 
Shamu, I've lost track of how many bullet types I've tested.  135, 150, 155, 168 and 175 SMKs and numerous others.  Tried some old stock CIL 150 gr flat base and Berger 150 gr Target flat base (pricey bullets they are).   The last few years I've stuck with Speer 125gr flat base TNT, very light recoil for rapid stage and the bullet is very accurate (when the rifle behaves itself). 
 
It took a definite turn for the worst about 6 months ago.  But it's never been accurate right from the beginning, after about the first 1000 rounds, the average 10 shot group size on the bench was 5+ MOA.  I recorded every single group in my log book.  Contrast that with my No. 4 which has an average 10 shot group size on the bench of just over 1.5 MOA.  
 
I'm going to install a new Criterion barrel.  If that solves the problem and I get decent accuracy (3 MOA), I'll shoot it out, then install a Krieger. 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2018 at 5:44am
I tried 125 gr loads in my 7.62 (not an Enfield) & could not get good accuracy out of therm. I eventually concluded they had top be seated with minimal neck insertion to feed that they just weren't compatible with my otherwise accurate rifle.
It sounds like you have a bad barrel though.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2018 at 9:57am
Some of the best shooting I was able to get from my M1 (for a short period of time) was with the 125 gr flat base bullet, even though it had to be way back from the lands (I seat that bullet in the .30-06 to 3.10 inch COL).  
 
My No. 4 rifle barrel (in .303) also has a long throat, I don't think even a 174 gr SMK touches the lands even if the bullet is barely held in the case neck.  But, it shoots very good with this bullet (I seat the 174 gr. to 3.05 inches just to ensure reliable magazine feeding).
 
I don't know what makes a barrel "bad".  But, no question, this barrel has never been consistent, and at best, I would say it was average.  It's as if there is unusually high barrel whip and the bullets are leaving the muzzle at different angles of departure.  I'm sure it's made of steel and would have the same stiffness as any other Criterion barrel.  Maybe the chamber is cut badly; who knows.  But, it's coming off this receiver and getting replaced very soon...
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2018 at 11:44am
In every case where I've had a long throat I seat so that I have a t least a diameter's worth of depth. It seems to balance the conflicting needs of stable, centered release & coaxial feeding.
The barrel might benefit from stress relieving? Its worth a try.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2018 at 7:12pm
Shamu, that’s a rule of thumb that seems to make sense and my 125 gr flat based bullet is seated in the .30-06 case based on this approach. In the .303, I’m seating the Sierra 174 gr boat tail to 3.05 inches which is less than the calibers depth in the neck (excluding the boat tail of course).   It shoots good at this seating depth, although I should try seating deeper and see how it groups. Need to be careful doing this as it decreases air space and can affect pressures.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2018 at 8:11pm
its a shooter in my book , far better than i am , 
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