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Weird question-.303" black powder.
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hoadie View Drop Down
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Points: 9680 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2008 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by Smokey Smokey wrote:

I believe black powder can be formed into various shapes while damp. If I remember correctly, the ingredients were mixed with ammonia and dried into sheets. The sheets would then be broken up into granules when almost completely dry.
Trying to press dry powder into some other form could have unexpected pyrotechnic effects! [IMG]http://www.enfield-rifles.com/smileys/smiley10.gif" height="20" width="18" align="absmiddle" alt="Star" />

Just gimme aliitle more time-or remind me-they talk about that in my artillery handbook
Hoadie
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Points: 3256 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2008 at 7:39pm
Blimey Hoadie lad it'd be like using a borfors gun in a canoe! What goes up must come down too! I can just imagine them ducking as the lead, nails and kitchen sink dropped back on them.
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Hoadie is correct. The 4 Gauge punt gun was common I believe.
My dad knew an old bloke who was a poacher. He spoke of 4G guns and I think the muzzle loaders were even bigger.
They did not aim the gun they aimed the punt and fired the gun. Killed whole flocks of birds in one shot.
I think they then sunk the punt,grabbed the dead birds and cleared off.
They sold the birds at a market the next day.
Then when things had settled they went back and salvaged the punt.
I am not sure of the exact details but it is along those lines.
Flare pistols were also 4G. I have a 4G flare cartridge.
I seem to recall the black powder was tumbled in a wooden keg. I am sure I have this written somewhere, Ill try to dig it out.
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Points: 5 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pathdoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2009 at 10:01pm
IIRC not only did they press the BP into a very tight pellet to get the whole charge in, they had to put it into the straight-walled, primed case and form the case around the charge then seat the bullet. Textbook of Small Arms 1929 implies the same thing happened for the cordite charge in later marks of ammo.
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It being that I think "out of the box" I've tried black powder in bottlenecked cases with jacketed bullets. It shoots OK. Velocity is fairly consistent and ignition is good even at subzero temperatures. The jacketed bullets seem to scrape out the worst of the fouling so the bore does not "fill up" in the manner we see with muzzle-loaders. You will NOT get the kind of velocity that smokeless gives. I read somewhere that some of the Finnish troops made their own ammo, and use black powder during the "Winter War". It worked better in the extreme cold.
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Points: 5 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pathdoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2009 at 9:17pm
When you say black, do you mean true black powder, pyrodex or both (not at once obviously)?
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I have a Kropatschek rifle(in various states of disassembly) that I am trying to restore.As I understand it,they were made by Steyr for the Portugese.
This rifle has a sharply bottle-necked cartridge(8mm) & is powered by Fg black powder.
The maximum range for these thing is 2,200 meters
Original loads were 70 grains of Fg & pushed a 247 grain/.326 dia jacketed bullet @1,706 fps.
I know alot of them-somehow -ended up being used by the French in the 1st war.
So-I guess you could say,"Black powder lives!"
Hoadie
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pathdoc Yes, I was talking about "true" black powder. You also need to de-prime and rinse the empty cartridges with hot water or they will corrode pretty nicely. Cleaning the rifle is no different than with regular corrosive ammo. Run plenty of hot (boiling) water down the barrel to dissolve out the fouling and corrosive salts. Dry it, oil it and you're done. If nothing else is available, black powder and jacketed or cast bullets work well enough out to a couple hundred yards.
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Was actually considering loading Bp for the Martini -Enfield in my other post.Doesn't strike me as odd just something for the most part forgotten over time.
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hoadie View Drop Down
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Originally posted by mauser98nut mauser98nut wrote:

Was actually considering loading Bp for the Martini -Enfield in my other post.Doesn't strike me as odd just something for the most part forgotten over time.

When I had my Martini..I searched hi & low for someone producing loads for them...to no avail.Shortly after my buddy bought(stole?) it from me-I find out that there was 2 producers for it!! Anyway-one was in Texas(I think)cant remember the other's locale tho.
But someone is makin .577/450(bloody expensive-too.If I recal it was like-$8.00 per round!)
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The cheapest I found is $113 for 20, or $5.65 per round.  Hey, Rhino, when you get that Martini fixed, it's on the Buffalo Arms site.  Let me know if you buy some and I'll pay for however many rounds I shoot out the window!  ZULUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!
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If the compressed cylinder or pellet of BP was damaged in the loading process or in transport the charge would burn much too quickly and generate excessive pressures.
The BP loading was at best a stop gap till a useful reliable Smokeless propellant was developed.
 
I have seen photos of a WW2 ammunion factory showing women priming cartridges which were already loaded. They used a priming booth with blast resistent glass shield.
A cartridge igniting in the open would be much like to old cherry bomb firework. The main danger would be from being struck by the casing.
Not sure if the bullet had been seated or just the charge inserted and necking operations done.
One of the girls might loose a finger now and then, but they took care to avoid setting off anything else.
I suspect this was a bottle neck in production and resulted in britian ordering more conventionally assembled ammo from the US and Canada during wartime.
The long shelf life of Cordite allowed the British to stockpile huge amounts of ammo between wars, but attempts to change the formula to reduce the need for acetone as a solvent had also resulted in huge batches of Cordite that went bad in less than ten years, leaving the British short on ammo.
 
A description of a fire at an ammo storage facility stated that casings of cooked off .330 SAA shot into the sky like small skyrockets. The Cordite burning like a small rocket motor rather than detonating.
 
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