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Working out some loads.

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britrifles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2020 at 2:33pm
303 Hunter, first check if the barrel can freely bend in all directions at the front end of the forend.  Grasp the forend and barrel with both hands and see if the barrel moves in all directions.  If it does, it’s not likely there is any barrel bearing support in the forend (except at the chamber reinforce), in which case, there is nothing to check, the barrel is free floating.  You might want to consider adding a barrel bearing support to the forend to give approx 12 to 14 lbs up pressure on the barrel at the sling swivel band. 
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WilliamS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WilliamS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2020 at 9:22am
Explosive, how on earth is a nearly six inch group at 100 yards fine?  I expect 3-4 MOA out of my milsurps... better from sporters.  If that is your standard then I am not surprised you see no difference with or without upward pressure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2020 at 9:31am
Explosive - you are easily pleased.
My Milsurps all shoot 1MoA (except the No5 when it gets hot)

Open (iron) sights at 82 yards (75 metres)Prone, with only elbow support.
No4 Mk1*

2 Warming Shots at 10:00 then 5 rounds.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2020 at 9:34am
Originally posted by 303 Hunter 303 Hunter wrote:

Okay, tell me how and I will give it a go.
Shamu had stated to make some adjustments to the front sight by drifting it to the left in increments.  Do that first. The center bedding method is what is recommended for your rifle now due to its current configuration. The areas circled in red are where your barrel needs to be making contact with the wood. Criterion barrels have the exact same contours of an original No4 and needs to be bedded to the furniture the same way it left the factory to maintain its accuracy.  Barrel harmonics during live fire without proper bedding in place will show up on a target as horizontally strung shots. The Armourer IIRC, has a copy of Capt. Peter Laidler's  article on the correct stocking up methods. The supplied photo is courtesy of E.G.B. Reynolds 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WilliamS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2020 at 10:10am
Load #5 provides a much better starting point than load #4.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2020 at 10:17am
Everybody please settle down.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2020 at 12:31pm
303 Hunter, if you want to check the contact pressure when you're testing the fore end to barrel fit. You can use a rig like Britrifles, with the rifle upside down. If you fill water bottles to the correct weight and hang them off the muzzle. This will give the deflection equivalent of the up pressure. A piece of paper fitted between the bedding and the barrel should just pull free when the adjustment is correct. You can adjust the amount of water to see what the load is. You can shim using gasket material or thin wood shims.
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2020 at 1:19pm
IMHO, I do think the original No. 4 barrel bearing at the forend works very well.  The downfall is that it is more susceptible to humidity and temp changes than the Mid or Centre bearing.  Many years of development and experimentation to improve target accuracy did produce tangible results.  

A well set up No. 4 with standard muzzle bearing and match grade handloads should repeatedly put 10 shots under 2 MOA off the bench with scope sighting.  Mid band or Centre bearing should group under 1.5 MOA.  Some will be better than this, if so, you are fortunate.  

A free floated service weight barrel will not likely consistently group 10 rounds under 6 MOA.  The groups will be vertically strung, but lateral fliers can also occur as the barrel vibrates in an oval pattern at the muzzle.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2020 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by Explosive Explosive wrote:

Understanding the effects of barrel harmonics and oscillation

WHY FLOATING A BARREL INCREASES ACCURACY.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGEh_GYgZqk


Well, not too likely this guy knows more about accurizing Lee Enfield Rifles than Fultons of Bisley or Parker Hale, or the many skilled armourers who spent a lifetime fitting forends to get the best accuracy for the highly competitive national and international Service Rifle matches ....

Just my view, but hey, maybe they were all wrong and this guy knows something we don’t?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2020 at 1:31pm
Nope!  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2020 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by Explosive Explosive wrote:

Understanding the effects of barrel harmonics and oscillation

WHY FLOATING A BARREL INCREASES ACCURACY.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGEh_GYgZqk
On some rifles Explosive, some.
The Lee Enfield rifles NEED to be bedded correctly along the length of the forend furniture to maintain its accuracy. Anything less and accuracy falls off dramatically.  Master Armourer Captain Peter Laidler, E.G.B. Reynolds, Ian Skennerton and a multitude of other Enfield rifle professionals including the folks that originally designed and manufactured the rifles will attest to. This is one area of expertise that you are obviously not privy to. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2020 at 1:39pm

[/QUOTE]

My LB sporter tells me you don't have a clue.                Watch the video above.[/QUOTE]
You keep throwing these little jabs at us proclaiming we do not have a clue and that your rifles will outshoot anything we have and top it off with unsafe reloading practices.  Why? What are you trying to accomplish here Mick? Making friends is definitely not one of them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2020 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by Explosive Explosive wrote:

Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

  Master Armourer Captain Peter Laidler,...


PMSLLOL


The proper way :



" ....................Now for the muzzle. This is where fact differs from fancy. Of all the new fangled methods of fitting fore-ends, with mastic this or rubber mounted that spring loaded wotsits or what-jer-ma-flik thingies that some have tried ….., some who really ought to know better incidentally, none of these methods has EVER been proved to out shoot a properly set up No4. And, to prove the point, not one other method ever got past the first trial when it came to out shooting the No4T. Yes, the muzzle, When you’ve got the back end fitted perfectly, this is what the good EMER says about the muzzle

‘The barrel must be absolutely clear for its whole length except for that described for the reinforce (we’ll come to that bit in a few moments). At the muzzle, it should bear for the full length (that’s about 2” or so) along the raised muzzle seating of the fore-end, for approx .3” of its radial width. Apart from this bearing, the barrel will be clear of the fore-end all around for a minimum of .020” and free of all other influence. The weight required to lift the barrel from this muzzle seating should be between 3 and 7 lbs. If the weight is below this, the barrel bearing at the reinforce should be lowered. Notice that! The front trigger guard screw is the pivot when fitting fore-ends. If the weight is above this, then the body and reinforce seating will be raised.

Well, we’ve done the rear end, we’ve done the muzzle and we’ve talked about lowering or raising the body and reinforce bearings ….., but where are they?

By now, you should have the fore-end sitting down on the body and a nice tight snug fit. There must not be ANY PLAY of the fore-end between the butt socket and the draws. That’s got that bit out of the way. You have also got the fore-end sitting down and bearing evenly at the muzzle. Now it’s time to smear a smidgin (an engineering phrase now, indicating just a tiny bit …..) of engineers blue onto the underside of the front of the body, where it houses the front trigger guard screw spigot and extend the blue backwards along the thin walls of the magazine housing for a distance of not less than 1.9” from the front of the body. This blued surface MUST ‘….bear evenly throughout its surface and at the same time, the fore-end must be clear of either side of the barrel socket of the body’. That is to say, the fore-end must only touch the front face of the butt socket, the draws and the front of the body extending for 1.9” rearwards, equally on both sides.

But before you get this bearing surface in the body you’ll find that the reinforce of the barrel is starting to bear. Remember how we very carefully chiseled of a gnats knacker or a sliver at a time from the draws? This is what you have to do with the wood at the underside of the barrel reinforce. Just a sliver away at a time being patient all the time until, and I’ll quote ….. ‘There must be a good bearing at the reinforce, extending for its full length and not less that a third of its radial width (we say that, that equates to just a smidgin over ½” radially …). It is important that this bearing is in the centre of the reinforce seating of the fore-end. The sides must be entirely clear of the barrel.

Some fore-ends have been found to be too low at the reinforce bearing and there’s no way of checking these before you start! Many came to light during the L42 programme and ….., I’m going off the subject, but just remember the ‘plate, reinforce’ saga! If your is low, then the only answer is to chisel it out and insert a hardwood insert….. or start again or just commit suicide………. The same applies to warped fore-ends I’m afraid and while I’ve come across a few, they were inevitably scrap

From all of this, your fore-end is perfectly fitted. The handguards must have no bearing on the barrel whatsoever. That is to say, a good,.020” clearance all round. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2020 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by Explosive Explosive wrote:

Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

  Master Armourer Captain Peter Laidler,...


PMSLLOL

Pissing Myself Laughing?
Shamu or Eric feel free to reprimand me as you see fit. 
Explosive.  You are an absolute disgrace to this forum and will never fit in based off of your ignorance alone. You are testing our patients and rocking the boat for whatever reason you have come up with. Take your negativity and find another group to irritate. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2020 at 1:51pm
Maybe he was in the Wyoming Navy and learned nothing ..........



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2020 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by Explosive Explosive wrote:

Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:



You keep throwing these little jabs at us proclaiming we do not have a clue and that your rifles will outshoot anything we have and top it off with unsafe reloading practices.  Why? What are you trying to accomplish here Mick? Making friends is definitely not one of them.


Knowledge is more important than popularity.


"Respect you knowledge, as it is the most important of all things. Without knowledge you shall understand of no thing. You shall die in the darkness for lack of it. Abuse it not, for it is the key of life itself that opens all eyes and all portals, and it shall show you The Way." 
   (Unknown author. )
You sir have yet to show any amount of knowledge in regards to anything you have presented us with currently. Now. Lack thereof, you have demonstrated in spades.  
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