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BSA/Tippins patent SMLE Target Sight

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Strangely Brown View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 26 2025 at 5:50am
The Tippins family history have long interested me and most of their sights I have seen have been for long range shooting, especially on Long Lee's; and the majority of those have been supine rifles with a long tangent sight mounted on the rear of the butt often with a Galilean foresight.

This turned up on Ebay and although the accompanying pictures with it were mainly out of focus the seller was able to answer most of my questions...in his own way!

"The clicks are positive" was part of the sales blurb, indeed they are on the windage wheel, the elevation though is devoid of clicks and the user has to slide the elevation up and down to where he or she thinks it should be and then use the "fine" adjust wheel on top of the sight to correct, this has no clicks but allows about 12 MoA adjustment. 
The windage clicks are a full 1 MoA adjustment and the sight was approved for NRA (UK) use in 1910 when the scoring rings on targets were rather more generous than today. 

The sight fouls the bolt so to take the bolt out the sight tips to the left side and can be folded forward in the same manner as the No.4 rear sight.   

The "tipping" lever seen on the left.



The sight tipped to allow the bolt to be removed.


The sight folded when not in use.


Side view folded


Made by BSA clearly visible along with Martins name (Alexandra Martin's of Glasgow)
I'm nor sure whether this sight contained any design corrections by Martins or their name was on there solely as the retailer.



Some more information about the sight (instruction booklet) and the Tippins family can be found here:

Will I use it?
Quite probably although at 200 yards only, the thought of pushing the slide somewhere in the parish of 500 yards is currently giving me the cold sweats! 






















Mick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2025 at 8:27am
Very interesting sight Mick. The windage scale looks similar to the rear aperture sight on the Ross Mk III Rifle, perhaps developed around the same time.  Both elevation and windage appear to have a vernier scale. 

Certainly worth trying!  Might take some getting used to for finding repeatable elevation settings for the various ranges. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strangely Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2025 at 8:51am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

Very interesting sight Mick. The windage scale looks similar to the rear aperture sight on the Ross Mk III Rifle, 

Geoff, you have unwittingly discovered a connection between Martin, Tippins and Peddie who were all in the 1908 Olympic Military Rifle Team.
 
From rear 1st left, John Martin (son of Alex Martin Glasgow) 3rd left John Peddie superintendent at Vickers Maxim & Son and designer of the Peddie sight for Ross rifles. 
And finally 6th left John Tippins whose father Luke made the patent for my sight. John didn't survive the Great War and was killed getting water for the Vickers machine gun. Ommundsen front left also  fall in the Great War, he was the 1901 Kings Prize winner and co author of a book called Rifles & Ammunition

If ever there were a group of shooting "influencers" it was this group! 



Apologies to Rifleman.org who I stole the picture from!



Mick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2025 at 11:00am
Sweet! I'm fascinated by the mechanical complexity of these old target sights!
Just a thought.
I had an old target sight that I bought online. An A.G. Parker #9W. It had no windage clicks also.
It was also dry, crusty & filthy.
I detail stripped it very carefully taking lots of pictures did a bit of a re-blue & a general C.L.A.
During the process I discovered a tiny leaf spring & ball detent!
When reassembled after the through cleaning & light lube the clicks were working perfectly!
Might you have a similar issue?
Shocked
Before: if you stare down inside the windage vernier you can just see the tip of it over the screw thread down inside the arm.

After

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2025 at 4:40pm
Wow, great restoration!
Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2025 at 4:50pm
Thanks.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2025 at 3:54am
These old target sights are very interesting. Also collectible! 
I also have an AGParker No9 type on my 1918 SMLE .22
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strangely Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2025 at 4:15am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

I also have an AGParker No9 type on my 1918 SMLE .22

I also have a BSA 9c on one of my SMLE's which I absolute love; which is making it a difficult choice to replace the 9c with the BSAA/Tippins above.

Or do I find another SMLE to put it on...?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sapper740 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2025 at 5:50am
Nice find SB and a sight I wasn't familiar with prior to your post.  Like Shamu I too am fascinated with the old micrometer peep sights, so much that I have added several to rifles I have bought to improve my accuracy when shooting with them.  That, and I think it adds a little more interest when I display them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2025 at 11:01am
I'd say it's worth buying another rifle to fit the sight!

Here's my 1918 .22 Peddled scheme SMLE, which still wears it's original woodwork. It is definitely one of my favourites. A real joy to shoot and still very accurate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strangely Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2025 at 11:20am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

I'd say it's worth buying another rifle to fit the sight!

I'm still working on that one Zed.
That looks like a BSA 9G you have there, nice combo! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2025 at 11:49am
Sweet setup!
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2025 at 10:36pm
It's made by AG Parker. But I think the original design is BSA. 
I did have on the .303 initially, but I found that the main thumb screw 
( which is not original) would work loose and cause errors. (Recoil).
So I fitted a later PH sight to the .303 and put this one on the .22
Luckily the French Federation have recently added a class for service match rifles in the Trainer class. So I get to use it in competition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2025 at 7:43am
These old sights are so steampunk, I luv em, they always attract attention and questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2025 at 11:23am
I just put a suitable sized wave spring washer under the head.Wink
I'm not sure who originally designed it, or if BSA made it for AGP from their design?

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strangely Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2025 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

I'm not sure who originally designed it, or if BSA made it for AGP from their design?

I believe the 9c was all BSA's own work; the 9f & 9g all had improvements put in by AG Parker (Alfred Gray Parker) and by the time they had come to the market place AGP were working out of larger premises in Whittall Street Birmingham at the famous, AGP Bisley Works.
The move to Whittall street afforded them larger premises to manufacture more items; I suspect BSA were happy to let them have the sights to make so they could concentrate on rifle manufacture. 

Edited to add:
I've since read elsewhere that BSA bought the design and rights of the 9c from another source, something I cannot at the moment verify.
Mick
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