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JJ&Co JJ Jovino. lithgow or bitster?

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Marco1010 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marco1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2020 at 10:54am
The MAO stamp is interesting to note, if I recall correctly, somewhere about late 1943 Lithgow ceased assembling the whole rifle at the Lithgow factory as they were going to concentrate on bren guns.
The parts for the Lee enfields coming from Lithgow itself and all the feeder factories surrounding it such as orange, mildura, etc.  All the final assembly was shifted to the Mildura factory hence the MAO stamp.
After the war , the feeder factories closed down and all manufacturing and assembly moved back to Lithgow.  However since the feeder factories had made massive quantities of parts in any case, and there was the grudging realisation that no1Mk111 rifles were going to be obsolete, Lithgow moved to assembly of rifles from existing parts stocks.  Many of these rifles (1945 onwards) would have been moved straight to stores and sat unissued. To keep Lithgow staff employed, many issued ww2 rifles would have returned for FTR overhauls and then also go to storage.
Jovino would have purchased lots of Australian defence force stores rifles at auction in the 60's and 70's , these would have been off the racks and been a mix of unissued, barely used, well used & abused, and some that were used but had been FTR.  To top it off loads of those parts I mentioned earlier would have been part of the auctions as the stores officers would not want to be stuck with millions of parts of little value otherwise.  In other words the auctions were a " job lot" you took it all or nothing.  There could have been junk rifles , broken rifles, DP rifles as well.  The stores officers wanted it gone, army depots and bases all over australia had sprung up due to the war and afterwards most were closed down, stores consolidated, sold were possible, if not sold dumped at sea or buried.
There are some cool youtube sites of metal detectorists who search there old base / depot sites and its obvious from what they find a lot of stuff was got rid of, loads of Lee Enfield parts/rifles were stacked up and burned.   If you think that was bad, should have seen how much lend-lease equipment, vehicles, aircraft went the same way.
Jovino probably got those rifles for less than a dollar each.
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Zed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2020 at 11:02am
With regard to the import marks. If your looking for a rifle in the USA; I expect you may find it dificult to find an SMLE without an import mark. Seeing as they are all imported at some point in time.
Be aware of the possible issues with some JJCo builds; but don't discount the possibility that's a good original Lithgow built one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2020 at 11:40am
Its a typo. type in manually do not enter the first "f".
It does not open, but it downloads, check in your downloads folder it may already be there!

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2020 at 11:41am
thanks Marco and Zed.  1945 is an interesting year. There was still some severe fighting going on, with the Germans not surrendering until may and the Japs in August.  Admittedly the major Western front battles were over late 44 or very early 45, but I think New Guinea was still raging in 45.  How many of these made it to the front versus surplus...Maybe some members of this board know this.  I tell you though, it breaks my heart when you see the footage of perfectly good p51s and other airplanes being rolled off the back of an aircraft carrier. I am sure it is the same for these 303s. One of my favorite plans is the B24 liberator and I think there are only 2 flying examples remaking. So sad.   I’ll post some more photos. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2020 at 12:53pm
a couple more photos attached.  Serial Number on forstock, bolt, barrel, nose cap, and stock match.  Also the PAA marks on bolt and receiver match.  I have been looking for months, and even though it is import marked, i am pretty excited about this one.  I have asked the seller for more detailed pictures of the barrel knox and verification of the Copper Recoil Plates.  the board has been good in verifying the import mark may not mean it is junk.   let me know if I am overlooking something obvious.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2020 at 1:18pm
Here is an embarasing (Novice) question....Is this image of a serial number on the receiver, or the barrel?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2020 at 3:21pm
Can you get an image of the nosecap & muzzle from an angle that shows the relationship between the barrel outside & the nosecap front?
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote devrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2020 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by AussieShooter AussieShooter wrote:

Originally posted by devrep devrep wrote:

MAO means rifle factory no. 3 at Lithgow.  HV means it was sighted for high velocity ammunition.  there is probably an HV stamp on the barrel in front of the knox form.  make sure the serial number is on the receiver, on the bolt, on the nose cap below the muzzle and on the wood on the bottom of the fore-end at the muzzle end.  looks good so far but post a bunch of photos in the rifle section.

here is some good info:    ffs001_smle_markings (2).pdf

Hi Devrep - I could open the link - is there a trick to opening.

try this link.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2020 at 5:00pm
That works for me, but also as a direct download.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote devrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2020 at 5:55pm
yes, its a PDF.  I got it from the Lithgow museum site but can't find it on there now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2020 at 4:22pm
Hi Shamu, sorry for the slow response - i was out all day yesterday getting a Christmas tree! I am viewing this on gunbroker and think this is the photo you are looking but I wasn't sure so included others available. Also,  was reading Skennerton's book on Australian SMLE Variations and came across a couple of interesting bits: 1) The barrel is marked HV SC, and apparently this was "...From November 1943 the SC mark was dispensed with."  This barrel retains the SC mark.  Does this suggest the barrel is not original to the gun?  Apparently the mark on the barrel is scuffed from the sights.
2) Skennerton suggests brass was used for the inner and outer bands and butt swivel starting April 1942 and switched back to steel in 1945.  these look like BA marked brass bands, but based on the serial number could be a later 1945 (F36302) Is it acceptable to still use brass?
What do you think?  Thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2020 at 4:23pm
I got it as well.  Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2020 at 4:25pm
Hi Devrep.  You are spot on about the HV.   I posted a photo later in this thread with a photo showing the HV SC stamp on the barrel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2020 at 1:10am

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2020 at 6:15am
The thing to remember is we're looking at the rifle from a slightly different perspective from an Aussie armorer back in the day.
He fixed whatever needed fixing with whatever he had "sitting in a bucket" & got it back to the troops.
Because of that I think we over-think the "matching bits" part of it.
Many of these small mis-matched things are just a differing point of view.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2020 at 6:27am
Thanks for the pics Armourer and the perspective Shamu.   You are right, there was a lot going on in the world in 1945, a little bit like today.
"Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges" - Tacitus
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