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Mkiii with ishapore 2a1 internals

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The Armourer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

That is not a No1Mk111/*  It is a 2A/2A1 7.62mm Ishapore made at the Wah Cannt factory in Pakistan. The No1 and the 2A/1 are two separate entities. Yours pictured could garner between 350-550 USD depending on who is willing to pay what you decide to offer.  The bayonet I have seen listed as low as 50 bucks and as high as 250.00

I think there may be a little confusion here, the Enfield 2A was built by the RFI (Rifle Factory Ishapore) which is in India and has been supplying munitions since 1787.

The POF (Pakistan Ordnance Factory) is in Wah Cannt which is in Pakistan

Separate companies and very separate countries, who spent many, many years of heavy fighting over the borders from 1947 until a ceasefire in 2003
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 2:45pm
Yes. I misremembered and thank you for the clarification. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by Squirrely Squirrely wrote:

yeah, I knew that these were purpose built internals, I just wasn’t sure exactly how much they were worth, I’ve put a few rounds through this and it’s still really accurate and functions like it should
Could you indulge me by explaining your referencing,"Internals" please?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 6:35am
I am curious on that as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 6:47am
to add to what was said concerning the two different factories , IIRC ishapore made the ni1 style rifle and pakistan made the no4 style , but i never came across a POF rifle to actually inspect it closely , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 7:09am
Yes, you are correct. Pakistan bought the tooling and machinery from the BSA Shirley plant and made No 4 rifles. The Indians only ever made the No 1 style of rifle. They refurbished others but only manufactured the No 1 style.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whitjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 9:59am
is there abig difference in quality from the India made as compared to the Pakastani made? Maybe that’s just splitting hairs...

‘Course then there’s the question about quality of those rifles when compared with BSA made....  (I just couldn’t help myself...)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Squirrely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 10:08am
when I say internals I’m referencing the bolt, carrier/receiver, and barrel, so essentially it’s all the metal functioning parts, not including the body/furniture.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 11:44am
Originally posted by Whitjr Whitjr wrote:

is there abig difference in quality from the India made as compared to the Pakastani made? Maybe that’s just splitting hairs...

‘Course then there’s the question about quality of those rifles when compared with BSA made....  (I just couldn’t help myself...)

It is a bit like comparing oranges with bananas

Pakistan did not make No1 rifles and India did not make the No4.

The No4 production in Pakistan came from BSA (as Bear said) because the contract that BSA had with the MoD was that they must retain the manufacturing capacity on a 'care & maintenance' basis  for 10 years after the last date of production, so, in 1955 it was old onto the highest bidder (Pakistan)


The PoF No4 rifles are good quality and shoot well.

The Indian No1 rifles that were initially sold off were all well built, and in fair condition, but, as the years have gone by the quality of the No1 Mk3 has gone down and they are now selling pretty much shot out rifles.
Ishapore started manufacturing the LE Mk1 in 1906 and changed over to No1 Mk3 in 1910, they manufactured all the way thru the two World Wars.
The 1950 onwards rifles (after India was given independence and they changed the steel spec) were not 'up-to-spec' and the proof testing was 'amended' but the specification was not. It was a bit of a 'fudge'

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2020 at 10:02pm
i agree with that - i think both initially produced good quality on "used equipment" but as years go by and equipment has aged and they no longer have british support .....im not going to say it has remained that way past the late 60s , but then im not sure what support or internal QC and retooling might be happening , i think both counties have advanced beyond the enield with whatever 'support' from foreign countries over the last 40 years , 
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